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Galileo Bad, Archimedes Good

intellectualmathematics.com

11–15 of 15 posts

Re: Galileo Bad, Archimedes Good

#11
post #2

I was going to say this is BS, and that Gaileo's big achievement was not undermined by this argument. I then found that what I was going to argue was his big achievement was not as original as I had thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo's_Leaning_Tower_of_Pis... On the other hand he still seems to have made a significant contribution to laws of motion in his writing, but I am not sure.

Galileo may not have done the exact "drop balls off the tower" experiment but he did formally study gravity by rolling balls down a ramp and timing it, and that experiment would have shown that heavier things don't fall faster than lighter things (until you get to things being large enough that the gravity force between them is meaningfully increased, but they wouldn't have been able to do that).

It still took like a thousand years for this to be experimentally demonstrated.

The important part of this "thought experiment" in the history of science is that it is part of the shift to empiricism that really drove science. It was important to go from "Well they were smart and they said, so it must be true" to "I don't care how smart you are, what you say doesn't match the data"

This is important, because "smart" people like Archimedes said a lot of stuff that was never true, but was taken as true for a millennia, often because it "sounded" right or obvious. More importantly, Archimedes could have done the exact same experiments that Galileo (and others) used to demonstrate he was not correct. There was no technological advancement required. He didn't, because the philosophy at the time was to "just think really hard about it" and "reason from first principles" and you would obviously get the right answer if only you are smart enough. Who needs data? You're smart and you thought hard about it, so you cannot be wrong!

People should recognize how important that is to remember in the current world.

Re: Galileo Bad, Archimedes Good

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the ancient Greek mathematics we learn about today was the university-equivalent mathematics of that era. Common people did not use geometric abstractions to figure out math problems. Before Fibonacci brought algebra to Europe, everyday calculations were done on an abacus. If no abacus was nearby, people emulated one by placing stones in lines on the ground. Pre-university schools, even today, focus on teaching…

My point was that we should consider how advanced the Greeks were with their understanding of mathematics, especially their desires for proofs. And we should contrast that with how mathematics is taught today. It's obvious that "practical math" has always been the most important and first skill to teach. But that ends at basic trigonometry. Students are learning how to do integration in highschool (not exactly a rele…

*high school

Re: Galileo Bad, Archimedes Good

#13
post #2

I was going to say this is BS, and that Gaileo's big achievement was not undermined by this argument. I then found that what I was going to argue was his big achievement was not as original as I had thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo's_Leaning_Tower_of_Pis... On the other hand he still seems to have made a significant contribution to laws of motion in his writing, but I am not sure.

Galileo may not have done the exact "drop balls off the tower" experiment but he did formally study gravity by rolling balls down a ramp and timing it, and that experiment would have shown that heavier things don't fall faster than lighter things (until you get to things being large enough that the gravity force between them is meaningfully increased, but they wouldn't have been able to do that). It still took like a…

IF he was the first to do the rolling balls down the slope it is still important.

He still made a major contribution, but if other people had done the "drop balls of the tower" experiment before his time, then the move to empiricism was underway and that does make his contribution a lot less.

To be fair, I think we often think of things being achieved by a big breakthrough by an individual when the reality was that the big breakthroughs are the result of lots of small changes - Newton's "shoulders of giants".

Interesting, looking up that phrase, I find that was not original either, but goes back to at least the 12th century.

Re: Galileo Bad, Archimedes Good

#14
post #2

I was going to say this is BS, and that Gaileo's big achievement was not undermined by this argument. I then found that what I was going to argue was his big achievement was not as original as I had thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo's_Leaning_Tower_of_Pis... On the other hand he still seems to have made a significant contribution to laws of motion in his writing, but I am not sure.

It's also interesting to note that the thought experiment is actually plain wrong, unless you consider general relativity a given. Galileo's argument is that the theory where heavier objects fall faster is inconsistent a priori, because affixing a small stone to a larger stone would cause the composed object to fall faster than the smaller stone was falling when it was free. However, there is no logical contradiction…

My first reaction to your objection was that the informal theory "heavier objects fall faster" inherently has one parameter per object (and that Galileo's objection more or less goes through against it) whereas you are discussing a two parameter theory. But on reflection I think you are right: "heaviness" could simply describe a derived quantity weight/mass.

Re: Galileo Bad, Archimedes Good

#15
post #5

I know this is polemical article is in good fun but chatGPT gives me the impression Descarte should not be counted with the others: https://chatgpt.com/share/68dd758f-2bc0-8008-955d-a7dbd89399... " Given: - The blog offers no primary evidence for Descartes’s having a proof. - Scholarly histories, based on critical assessment of surviving letters, treat the solution of the area problem as due to Roberval (and independ…

I never understand peoples' desire to copy paste their slop into a comment.

I apologize for the slop but it came from a genuine moment of confusion over the author's seeming misquote.
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