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Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

masteringemacs.org

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Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#11

Post by miladyincontrol »

UltraSane wrote: post #9
dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

You can get a QMK keyboard and create a function key layer.

More than just one function layer at that. When customized sufficiently you can do far more, with less movement of the hands. Different actions on hold, tap dance as well as macros all really help minimize strain.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#12

Post by randlet »

dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

Kinesis Freestyle Pro? I've got the non mechanical version (mechanical wasn't available when I purchased) and it's held up for many years. It's a great keyboard IMO.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#13

Post by rince »

randlet wrote: post #12
dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

Kinesis Freestyle Pro? I've got the non mechanical version (mechanical wasn't available when I purchased) and it's held up for many years. It's a great keyboard IMO.

I really like my Kinesis Freestyle Edge with the tenting kit. I’ve been using it for around 2 years and no complaints.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#14

Post by kyeb »

dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

I find one modifier plus a home-row key to be much more comfortable than reaching several rows up for an F-key.

The author's whole point here is that QMK (or ZMK, which I use) lets you customize it to exactly your own needs!

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#15

Post by animal_spirits »

andrewjf wrote: post #10

I have two moonlanders but wound up giving up because I just couldn't adapt to it. And when writing code, finding the symbols like {, =, }, and other common coding ones was just too difficult to retain muscle memory. I tried many layouts, I tried to make my own, and at the end of the day it was just too different. I wish I had a better experience. Any recommendations?

How long did you spend trying to adjust? it takes some time. I consistently made typos for about 2 months and then it quickly became very natural to type. My only advice here is to slog through the typos for a couple months. Our brains are flexible enough to adapt.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#16

Post by rajman187 »

My main keyboard has been a 34-key split Ferris. I usually have either a trackpad between the halves if I’m using a Mac or an ergonomic Logitech if on my Linux desktop. Not having to move my hands at all while being able to reach any keys/characters I need has been a welcomed change, worth remapping my brain.

https://arjtala.github.io/2022/09/17/ferris-compact.html

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#17

Post by bb88 »

dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

Depending upon the cost and how much they mean to you there are a couple of options.

One is to replace the switches. If they're hot swappable then it's easy. If they're not, it's hard -- but easy if you're willing to spend money on a desoldering iron. Depending upon your feelings here, I would consider it maintenance to keep it going if you love it -- particularly if you use it to prevent RSI.

A quick look shows matias does sell replacement switches -- which is usually the thing to go. Springs, crud, etc end up in the switches. Sometimes you can tear them apart to fix them, sometimes it's easier to toss them and replace them.

The typical desoldering tool for keyboards is something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/ENGINEER-Engineer-Solder-Suction-SS-0...

They also have things like this that are maybe more functional than trying to do it two handed:

https://www.amazon.com/zycllycx-Electric-Automatic-Desolderi...

But the hakko is the gold standard here. If you have keyboards you absolutely love but are soldered, this is the way to go.

https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FR-301-Portable-Desoldering-Too...

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#18

Post by kyeb »

andrewjf wrote: post #10

I have two moonlanders but wound up giving up because I just couldn't adapt to it. And when writing code, finding the symbols like {, =, }, and other common coding ones was just too difficult to retain muscle memory. I tried many layouts, I tried to make my own, and at the end of the day it was just too different. I wish I had a better experience. Any recommendations?

- Learn their default layout first, then iterate on your personal preferences. I similarly tried a bunch at first, but realized switching layouts constantly was making it impossible to build up the new muscle memory.

- Spend time practicing away from important coding tasks (e.g. gaming, writing, a side project, a one-off script, etc.). Being able to learn in a forgiving environment, outside of deadlines, gives you the space to allow mistakes and time to correct them

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#19

Post by QuantumNoodle »

andrewjf wrote: post #10

I have two moonlanders but wound up giving up because I just couldn't adapt to it. And when writing code, finding the symbols like {, =, }, and other common coding ones was just too difficult to retain muscle memory. I tried many layouts, I tried to make my own, and at the end of the day it was just too different. I wish I had a better experience. Any recommendations?

Muscle memory is exactly what it sounds like, you need more repetition. If you are becoming frustrated, you can try to reduce your cognitive load. ZSA has an app for all platforms called "Keymapp". It's primarily used for flashing firmware but shows the key assignments in real time. I use only 1 monitor but I've repurposed my laptop screen to always display keymapp so I can see which key/layer has the symbol I am looking for when I don't have the mental capacity to remember.

The default layers are pretty good, but I found programming the keys/layers to what made sense to me to be more beneficial. I use the heat map to see which keys get the most milage and program layers around that. Then I only program a few new keys at a time and get a feel for things. My words-per-minute went down initially but now it is back.

I have been tweaking my layout for about a month and am close to being happy with it. I've set myself a milestone that when I don't make any tweaks for 6 months I will buy custom keycaps that have my exact symbols/layers on each key.

Re: Thoughts on Mechanical Keyboards and the ZSA Moonlander

#20

Post by dotancohen »

kyeb wrote: post #14
dotancohen wrote: post #4

All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug. The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.

I find one modifier plus a home-row key to be much more comfortable than reaching several rows up for an F-key. The author's whole point here is that QMK (or ZMK, which I use) lets you customize it to exactly your own needs!

But then many keyboard shortcuts require four keys to be depressed all at once.

Just for an example off the top of my head, in JetBrains IDEs the shortcut for hiding all tools is Ctrl-Shift-F12.

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