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Critique of DHH's post "As I remember London"

paulbjensen.co.uk

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Re: Critique of DHH's post "As I remember London"

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> direct consequence Yet somehow the Ottoman and Japanese empires didn't "directly cause" such laws in Turkey or Japan, so obviously this is not "after rain, the streets are wet" type causality, but more like "the safe was unlocked, which caused me to steal the contents" "causality". > Public opinion [..is] irrelevant to the causal chain. Public opinion is irrelevant to what laws and policies are enacted in a "democr…

The Ottoman empire caused tons of Muslim migrants to enter its core provinces. Empires always managed and reshaped migration. The Romans resettled conquered peoples across their empire to strengthen borders and repopulate cities. The Habsburgs moved ethnic groups into borderlands against the Ottomans. The Russian Empire orchestrated mass movements of Tatars, Circassians, and others. In all these cases, imperial expan…

> Empires always managed and reshaped migration

Nice moving of goalposts. Meanwhile despite the Russian and Japanese empires, Moscow and Tokyo are 90% [1] and 95.4% [2] native, respectively, and despite the Ottoman Empire, 93.2% of Turkey is either populations native to the region (Turks, Kurds, and Yoruks) or from immediately adjacent regions (Tatars and Azerbaijanis). 95% if we count "Arabs" as adjacent, or even more, depending on what "other" is [3].

That's equivalent to if the UK was 95% English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, with some French, Germans, Danes, and Swedes. But we're supposed to pretend India and Pakistan moving into England is the same as population exchange with neighbors.

And that's still not "direct causation". But you ignore that, because you want to make it seem inevitable, when it is anything but.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow#Demographics

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Tokyo#Multicul...

[3] https://www.britannica.com/place/Turkey/The-central-massif

Re: Critique of DHH's post "As I remember London"

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ottoman empire caused tons of Muslim migrants to enter its core provinces. Empires always managed and reshaped migration. The Romans resettled conquered peoples across their empire to strengthen borders and repopulate cities. The Habsburgs moved ethnic groups into borderlands against the Ottomans. The Russian Empire orchestrated mass movements of Tatars, Circassians, and others. In all these cases, imperial expan…

> Empires always managed and reshaped migration Nice moving of goalposts. Meanwhile despite the Russian and Japanese empires, Moscow and Tokyo are 90% [1] and 95.4% [2] native, respectively, and despite the Ottoman Empire, 93.2% of Turkey is either populations native to the region (Turks, Kurds, and Yoruks) or from immediately adjacent regions (Tatars and Azerbaijanis). 95% if we count "Arabs" as adjacent, or even mo…

Those percentages are shaky (especially Tokyo and Turkey), and even if roughly true, they don’t negate the fact that empires like the Ottoman, Roman, and Russian actively engineered huge population movements. High present-day homogeneity doesn’t mean migration wasn’t empire-driven.

Re: Critique of DHH's post "As I remember London"

#14

> Also, guess where Saint George the patron saint of England is believed to be from? > Turkey. That would only work as a gotcha if DHH was in fact xenophobic.

It wasn't aimed at DHH.

In the post I mentioned that there are people in the UK painting the St George cross on roundabouts, and some like the protester who was interviewed in one of the links talking about having the UK be for "white people".

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