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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#11

Post by daemin »

I was just thinking that if something like this ever does get through and become law, then creating open-source alternatives which do not obey these laws would be quite trivial. What would not be trivial would be deciding where to host the servers and source code, and how to actually get this software onto people's devices.

What country would be safe for hosting code that does this that people would also trust in general? Would this be hosted on the dark web or would someone actually be brave enough to host it on their private machines? Would there be DNS that could point to this?

Then how would you install the software? You'd need a way to side-load it, which means you'd want a way to sign it. Which means either adding a new root signing authority or being able to have an existing root authority sell you a signing certificate and not revoke it.

You kind of quickly end up in some weird dystopian cyberpunk setting thinking all of this through.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#12

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

There are no solutions to that which wouldn't sound absurd. But if you could get past absurdity...

Politicians should agree to to be executed if they lose an election. Only those willing to risk their lives should be allowed to legislate. This also gives the voters the option of punishing those who pass onerous laws at the next election.

If you need extra zing, this would also apply to recall elections, so they could even be punished early.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#13

Post by _t9ow »

contravariant wrote: post #5
haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

> The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise

And the willingness and ability to enforce it. The current iteration of ChatControl is pushed by Denmark, which is at present the President of the Council of the European Union. The Danish Constitution itself enshrines the right to privacy of communication [0], but this is not stopping Denmark from wanting to ratify ChatControl anyway.

[0]: https://danskelove.dk/grundloven/72

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#15

Post by bigyabai »

daemin wrote: post #11

I was just thinking that if something like this ever does get through and become law, then creating open-source alternatives which do not obey these laws would be quite trivial. What would not be trivial would be deciding where to host the servers and source code, and how to actually get this software onto people's devices. What country would be safe for hosting code that does this that people would also trust in gen…

> You kind of quickly end up in some weird dystopian cyberpunk setting thinking all of this through.

The most dystopian concept out of everything you mentioned is still "you can't install unsigned software" to me.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#17

Post by okanat »

contravariant wrote: post #5
haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

EU has the Charter of Fundamental rights which is a part of the Treaty of Lisbon which is the constitutional basis of EU: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Right...

In the charter, the protection of personal data and privacy is a recognized right. So chat control is also probably against the EU law.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#18

Post by dekken_ »

jjice wrote: post #6
immibis wrote: post #2

This will never not be in the news, will it? I feel like it's been continuously for the past 10-15 years, under various names.

Just need to pass it once, unfortunately. And despite all the talk against it, they get a partial fresh start to the general public every time one of these is proposed.

The IRA quote to Thatcher comes to mind

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#19

Post by gmuslera »

haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

If only we could show them how this kind of things may go wrong. I don't know, the case of some leader of a nation they are having trouble with, abusing of a similar access with their data.

But they will probably think that is only bad when others do it to them.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#20

Post by simonw »

bigyabai wrote: post #15
daemin wrote: post #11

I was just thinking that if something like this ever does get through and become law, then creating open-source alternatives which do not obey these laws would be quite trivial. What would not be trivial would be deciding where to host the servers and source code, and how to actually get this software onto people's devices. What country would be safe for hosting code that does this that people would also trust in gen…

> You kind of quickly end up in some weird dystopian cyberpunk setting thinking all of this through. The most dystopian concept out of everything you mentioned is still "you can't install unsigned software" to me.

Good luck preventing people from loading up a web page that runs a pure JavaScript (or WebAssembly) implementation of common cryptography algorithms and lets people copy and paste each other encrypted messages.
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