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Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

cjauvin.github.io

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Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#11

I've found Anki the best app to learn almost anythinf that requires memorization. In my high school days, I saw a direct correlation between the amount of Anki studying I did, and my grade.

I add memory tricks (mostly mnemonics in this case) in that I learned from Dominic O'Brien [0] (I think some of his work has PDFs available) in order to juice the process a bit (helps with the tricky ones, and can make learning the new ones quicker if you do it from the get go)

[0] - (https://peakperformancetraining.org/)

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#12

I find it interesting that despite the relationship between Iran and various Arab countries being pretty hostile, there is no move towards stop using the word "Farsi" and revert back to "Parsi". Anyone know why? Seems like a easy political win for a besieged regime.

Because it has nothing to do with Arabic. /p/ in Persian is aspirated, and in some words, like aspirated /p/ in some other languages (e.g. Greek), it has turned into /f/; Ever wondered why ph is pronounced /f/? In Persian this is called "softening" (Narm şodegi).

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#13

I find it interesting that despite the relationship between Iran and various Arab countries being pretty hostile, there is no move towards stop using the word "Farsi" and revert back to "Parsi". Anyone know why? Seems like a easy political win for a besieged regime.

Both are used in Iran. Though a common folk etymology, Parsi didn't change under Arabic influence. Words like abzar and afzar exist in similar variation, guwspand gufsand, ispand, isfand, Espahan, Esfahan. Even modern loans from Russian sometimes undergo this change like apelsin->aflesun.

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#14

I find it interesting that despite the relationship between Iran and various Arab countries being pretty hostile, there is no move towards stop using the word "Farsi" and revert back to "Parsi". Anyone know why? Seems like a easy political win for a besieged regime.

There are some people suggesting that, however at a small scale and not taken that seriously by many. What difference does it make? What about all the other words that underwent the sound change? Also, some nuanced people can keep languages and politics separate. The sound shift isn't even entirely clear to be due to arabic influence, how come it turned into 'f' and not 'b' such as the arabic approximation? How come sounds like 'g' remained?

And in the end, in English it should be "Persian" and not "Farsi", that is where the actual move should be. How sad and historically wasteful if we started to do that to all languages, "deutsch", "zhongwen" or "elliniki" instead of German, Chinese and Greek

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#15
post #7

Author, you're not properly engaging with the language. Instead of learning to type (and simply adding vowel marks), you complain about letters having different forms akin to someone saying q and Q are different and then write a post about an actively worse approach. You also didn't understand that cards in anki can have more than 2 sides. Making Persian writing->Latin transcription then Latin transcription->English…

> Instead of learning to type

How do you know they are not learning to type?

> you complain about letters having different forms

Where did they "complain"?

The OP's article:

> From this, I will extract three screenshots (with the MacOS screenshot tool). First, to create a card of type “basic” (one side). I use this type of card to exercise my reading, which is very difficult and remains stubbornly slow, even though I know the 32 letters of the Persian alphabet quite well by now. But the different ways of writing them (which varies by their position in the word) and the fact that the vowels are not present makes it an enduringly challenging task.

It doesn't sound like they literally can't type in Persian, or they're complaining about how it's written, at all. They're merely stating the fact it's difficult for them (like every language learner).

They also screenshot the English part too. So presumably they screenshot because it's faster, not that they can't type.

> Author, you're not properly engaging with the language

Strangely condescending. They're focusing on reading and listening, which is legit for beginners.

I do agree that the use of Anki cards is suboptimal though.

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#16
post #9

I've had some successful sprints using Anki, but I always get fatigued making cards for it after a few months, even when leaning on LLM tools to speed up the process. One app I used early on when beginning French was Clozemaster, set to keyboard input (instead of multiple choice). The largest benefit was I didn't have to make all the decks, they progress you through the most common words (used in context), and there…

There's a large number of prebuilt Anki decks available here as well if this is useful for anyone exploring the space - https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks?search

For sure! I've gone through some pre-made verb conjugation and vocab decks -- and actually have been meaning to upload one I made for learning Bengali script -- but I still find grinding Anki decks to not be that effective for me. Which sucks, because all you hear is how magic Anki is, but I guess I've always struggled with rote memorization.

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#17

I find it interesting that despite the relationship between Iran and various Arab countries being pretty hostile, there is no move towards stop using the word "Farsi" and revert back to "Parsi". Anyone know why? Seems like a easy political win for a besieged regime.

There are some people suggesting that, however at a small scale and not taken that seriously by many. What difference does it make? What about all the other words that underwent the sound change? Also, some nuanced people can keep languages and politics separate. The sound shift isn't even entirely clear to be due to arabic influence, how come it turned into 'f' and not 'b' such as the arabic approximation? How come…

It used to be called Persian in English, the media changed it to Farsi to reduce it's "prestige". If you knew English and you are old enough you even remember the shift (1990s–2000s).

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#18
post #7

Author, you're not properly engaging with the language. Instead of learning to type (and simply adding vowel marks), you complain about letters having different forms akin to someone saying q and Q are different and then write a post about an actively worse approach. You also didn't understand that cards in anki can have more than 2 sides. Making Persian writing->Latin transcription then Latin transcription->English…

> Instead of learning to type How do you know they are not learning to type? > you complain about letters having different forms Where did they "complain"? The OP's article: > From this, I will extract three screenshots (with the MacOS screenshot tool). First, to create a card of type “basic” (one side). I use this type of card to exercise my reading, which is very difficult and remains stubbornly slow, even though I…

In English you have to actually press shift to change q to Q. In Persian, this is all done for you. Simply press a letter key and the correct form will appear (automatically changing form based on letters later.) Describing that as "challenging" indicates that the author does not know how to type in Persian.

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#19

I'm on year 10 of learning my second language and passed through a variety of teaching/learning methods. Intensive FSI courses, immersion including output as early as possible, self guided based heavily on reading and vocabulary, etc. While I get by mostly fine and now live in my second language, my listening is definitely my weakest skill. Anki is probably my most beneficial single tool. Though if I were to do it ov…

Just kicked off my third language after reaching B2/C1ish in my second (~5 years in), we'll see what the C1 test determines this fall, and Anki has been the consistent thing that stayed through all the other learning experiments. It's amazing just investing in Anki right out the bat how much quicker I'm moving on the new language. Especially considering it's way harder as it's not like any language I know (rich declension system, etc).

GenAI also been a big helper when I run out of content. "Write me an essay involving [subject I want to learn about]. In my response after reading, any word I've written separated by a comma generate a CSV of the format "that word, english definiton"." I'll then just dump those new words into Anki.

Re: Learning Persian with Anki, ChatGPT and YouTube

#20
post #7

Author, you're not properly engaging with the language. Instead of learning to type (and simply adding vowel marks), you complain about letters having different forms akin to someone saying q and Q are different and then write a post about an actively worse approach. You also didn't understand that cards in anki can have more than 2 sides. Making Persian writing->Latin transcription then Latin transcription->English…

Don't know how applicable it is in regards to vowel marks, but similarly in online conversation Czech people often leave out all diacritic marks (so no čšťďřňůúáéíýó). This used to be completely incomprehensible to me, until I had enough knowledge to read "normal" Czech text with relative ease.

So it seems to make a lot of sense to learn with that aid and later transition to no vowel markings (or reduced / the normal amount)

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