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The Claude Code Framework Wars

shmck.substack.com

11–20 of 71 posts

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#11
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

Yes, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Living creatures are mostly black boxes. It doesn't mean we don't aim for making medicine with predictable effects (and side effects).

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#12
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

Non-deterministic does not mean not-predictable.

Quantum mechanics is non-deterministic, yet you can predict the motion of objects with exquisite precision.

All these "non-deterministic boxes" will give the same answer to the question "What is the capital of France"

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#13
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

> Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic Predictability and determinism are related but different concepts. A system can be predictable in a probabilistic sense, rather than an exact, deterministic one. This means that while you may not be able to predict the precise outcome of a single event, you can accurately forecast the overall behavior of the system and the likelihood…

The topic of chaos is underrated when people talk about deterministic systems, but I think it's at least (usually?/always?) a tractable problem to draw up a fractal or something and find the non-chaotic regions of a solution space. You have nice variables to work with when you draw up a model of the problem.

Maybe someone can elaborate better, but it seems there is no such luck trying to map probability onto problems the way "AI" is being used today. It's not just a matter of feeding it more data, but finding what data you haven't fed it or in some cases knowing you can't feed it some data because we have no known way to represent what is obvious to humans.

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#15
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

Non-deterministic does not mean not-predictable. Quantum mechanics is non-deterministic, yet you can predict the motion of objects with exquisite precision. All these "non-deterministic boxes" will give the same answer to the question "What is the capital of France"

Yes, but the "exquisite precision" comes from the deterministic parts of physics.

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#16
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

> Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic Predictability and determinism are related but different concepts. A system can be predictable in a probabilistic sense, rather than an exact, deterministic one. This means that while you may not be able to predict the precise outcome of a single event, you can accurately forecast the overall behavior of the system and the likelihood…

From the discussion in the link: "Predictability means that you can figure out what will happen next based on what happened previously."

Having used nearly all of the methods in the original article, I can predict that the output of the model is nearly indistinguishable from a coin toss for many, many, many rather obvious reasons.

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#17
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

Yes, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Living creatures are mostly black boxes. It doesn't mean we don't aim for making medicine with predictable effects (and side effects).

Medicine that can either kill you, cure you, or have no effect at any given time for the same disease is quite unlikely to even pass certification.

Do you know why?

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#18
post #4

> a set of rules, roles, and workflows that make its output predictable and valuable. Let me stop you right there. Are you seriously talking about predictable when talking about a non-deterministic black box over which you have no control?

Yes, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Living creatures are mostly black boxes. It doesn't mean we don't aim for making medicine with predictable effects (and side effects).

I don't think that's accurate.

Don't most people working in medicine usually have biology and chemistry degrees? Are you saying those sciences are dark arts?

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Living creatures are mostly black boxes. It doesn't mean we don't aim for making medicine with predictable effects (and side effects).

I don't think that's accurate. Don't most people working in medicine usually have biology and chemistry degrees? Are you saying those sciences are dark arts?

Having biology degrees doesn't make you understand every detail of human body. There are many, many drugs that are known to work (by double blind testing) but we don't know exactly how.

The details of how penicillin kills bacteria were discovered in 2000s. Only about half a century of after its commercial production. And I'm quite sure we'll still see some more missing puzzle pieces in the future.

Re: The Claude Code Framework Wars

#20
For anyone that’s applied one of these at what level of autonomy are you using it? And in what setting? Greenfield?

I see one mention brownfield development. Has anyone with experience using these frameworks fired up Claude Code on enterprise software and had confident results? I have unchecked access to Claude Code at work and based on personal agentic coding I’m sure they do aid it. I have decent but not consistent results with my own “system” in our code base. At least until the front end UI components are involved even with Playwright. But I’m curious — how much litter is left behind? How is your coworker tolerance? How large are your pull requests? What is your inference cost? How do these manage parallel?

The README documentation for many have a mix of fevered infomercial, system specific jargon, emoji splatter and someone’s dad’s very specific toolbox organization approach only he understands. Some feel like they’re setting the stage to sell something…trademarked!? Won’t Anthropic and others just incorporate the best of the bunch into their CLI tools in time?

Outside of work I’ve regularly used a reasoning model to produce a ten page spec, wired my project with strictest lint, type check, formatter, hooks, instruct it to check off as it goes and do red green TDD. I can tell gpt-5 in Cursor to “go”, occasionally nudge to stay on task and “ok next” then I’ll end up with what I wanted in time plus gold plating. The last one was a CLI tool for my agent to invoke and track their own work. Anyone with the same tools can just roll their own.

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