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Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

reuters.com

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Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#11

Post by levkk »

crazygringo wrote: post #4

> The consumers’ 2021 lawsuit said Amazon violated antitrust law by restricting third-party sellers from offering their products for lower prices elsewhere on rival platforms while they are also for sale on Amazon. I've noticed that third-party sellers generally get around this by having the same list price on their own site, but basically offering everyone a coupon for 15-30% off. Not just for signing up for e-mails…

That can easily be perceived as violating the ToS and get you kicked off the marketplace. Big risk to take if that's where you're making most of your $.

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#13

Post by gruez »

shayway wrote: post #10

> Amazon argued that the class was too large to be manageable Sorry, we've wronged too many people to be held accountable! What a wild argument.

Looking at Amazon's filings, the argument they made is the following:

>Given the unprecedented size of the proposed class consisting of 288 million members, the individualized issues on which their claims depend, and the overwhelming evidence that the challenged conduct resulted in lower prices in Amazon’s store, Plaintiffs have not—and cannot demonstrate that a class action would be manageable.

The "individualized issues" references arguments presented earlier in the filing. They also cite prior cases where class lawsuits have been denied certification because the class was too big to be manageable. You might disagree with Amazon's lawyers here, but it's unfair to characterize it as "we've wronged too many people to be held accountable". It's an "wild" argument because it's a strawman.

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.29...

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#14

Post by p1necone »

shayway wrote: post #10

> Amazon argued that the class was too large to be manageable Sorry, we've wronged too many people to be held accountable! What a wild argument.

Unfortunately this approach seems to fly all the time for large businesses.

Plucky startup takes the 'ask forgiveness rather than permission' approach and ignores a bunch of regulations, legal system doesn't care because they're just a plucky startup.

10 or so years later plucky startup is a massive corpo, another 5 or so years later the legal system catches up but they're a massive corpo making piles of cash and the worst the legal system can do at that point is penalize them with the equivalent of pocket change compared to the piles of cash they made while ignoring those regulations.

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#16

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

like_any_other wrote: post #6
giancarlostoro wrote: post #3

So what are we all looking at? $100 a piece? Lol "Have you used Amazon from the years x to y?" If it covers 2020 thats basically most Americans.

$100 each for 330 million Americans sums to $33 billion, which is about half of Amazon's yearly profit (the whole company, not just e-commerce). While I think it should be higher still (anti-competitive practices should be harshly punished), it's not negligible. The real point isn't in the consumer payout, but in discouraging these practices, so that a handful of companies don't get a chokehold on the market (one cou…

It should be 10% gross over the time period covered in the case (or about $65 billion per year)

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#17

Post by tonetegeatinst »

nickff wrote: post #9
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm sorry your honor. We're breaking the law at such an extent it is impossible for us to be held responsible for it."

The federal government actually makes that argument all the time, and often prevails with it.

What sources do you have to back this claim up?

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#18

Post by gruez »

p1necone wrote: post #14
shayway wrote: post #10

> Amazon argued that the class was too large to be manageable Sorry, we've wronged too many people to be held accountable! What a wild argument.

Unfortunately this approach seems to fly all the time for large businesses. Plucky startup takes the 'ask forgiveness rather than permission' approach and ignores a bunch of regulations, legal system doesn't care because they're just a plucky startup. 10 or so years later plucky startup is a massive corpo, another 5 or so years later the legal system catches up but they're a massive corpo making piles of cash and the…

>up but they're a massive corpo making piles of cash and the worst the legal system can do at that point is penalize them with the equivalent of pocket change compared to the piles of cash they made while ignoring those regulations.

Examples? Usually when I see this argument being brought up, it's usually something like "[multinational megacorp] fined $x for breaking Belgian privacy laws", and then people pile in saying how "$x is 1% of [multinational megacorp]'s turnover" and therefore the fine is just "a cost of doing business", but neglecting to account for how much % of their revenue is in Belgium, or how much money they could have plausibly gained from the offenses in question.

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#19

Post by solardev »

gruez wrote: post #18
p1necone wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this approach seems to fly all the time for large businesses. Plucky startup takes the 'ask forgiveness rather than permission' approach and ignores a bunch of regulations, legal system doesn't care because they're just a plucky startup. 10 or so years later plucky startup is a massive corpo, another 5 or so years later the legal system catches up but they're a massive corpo making piles of cash and the…

>up but they're a massive corpo making piles of cash and the worst the legal system can do at that point is penalize them with the equivalent of pocket change compared to the piles of cash they made while ignoring those regulations. Examples? Usually when I see this argument being brought up, it's usually something like "[multinational megacorp] fined $x for breaking Belgian privacy laws", and then people pile in say…

Uber and Lyft with regard to taxi and contractor/employee laws, Google in regards to privacy, Meta in regards to basically everything...

Re: Amazon must face US nationwide class action over third-party sales

#20

Post by solardev »

gruez wrote: post #13
shayway wrote: post #10

> Amazon argued that the class was too large to be manageable Sorry, we've wronged too many people to be held accountable! What a wild argument.

Looking at Amazon's filings, the argument they made is the following: >Given the unprecedented size of the proposed class consisting of 288 million members, the individualized issues on which their claims depend, and the overwhelming evidence that the challenged conduct resulted in lower prices in Amazon’s store, Plaintiffs have not—and cannot demonstrate that a class action would be manageable. The "individualized i…

I don't see the difference between what the lawyers are saying and the parent's summary of it.

> we've wronged too many people to be held accountable

Sounds like exactly what it is... it's too big of a class to be managed, and therefore should not be?

In fact, the very next line is the judge saying:

> Chun found there was no evidence at this stage that the size of the class was overbroad. Other federal courts had certified class actions with millions or hundreds of millions of class members, the judge said.

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