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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#11

Post by arcane23 »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #2

Interesting article. On the one hand, it provides insides into how the project actually worked in china, which I didn't know. That's interesting. But it misses a huge nuance on the whole "dystopian" thing. The main thing about "social score bad" takes is that the government will use that scoring. It's not private private. Everything the author mentions about the various scoring in the US (and EU for that matter, alth…

>But the same does not extend to a private bakery. Or a bar.

I always found it strange that they are not allowed to discriminate based on gender/religion etc but they are allowed to discriminate based on if you are likable or not. As in they can refuse to serve you as long as they don't mention it's based on anything that's illegal to discriminate against.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#12

Post by ysofunny »

docdeek wrote: post #4
NitpickLawyer wrote: post #2

Interesting article. On the one hand, it provides insides into how the project actually worked in china, which I didn't know. That's interesting. But it misses a huge nuance on the whole "dystopian" thing. The main thing about "social score bad" takes is that the government will use that scoring. It's not private private. Everything the author mentions about the various scoring in the US (and EU for that matter, alth…

This was similar to my take. What's dystopian about how the Chinese system was/is/was rumored to be was that it was the government doing the tracking and scoring.

at this point, "doing that" is called having a "CRM" system.

it's all part of how there's widely available social media technology and academic graph languages.

of course the government is going to track the citizens, it's all a matter of how, how much, and to what end.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#13

Post by jacobr1 »

exabrial wrote: post #9

Why do you think sms "2fa" is suddenly so popular with banks and other fintechs, despite things like passkeys and u2f, you know things that _actually_ prevent people from breaking into accounts, have existed forever?

Passkeys are pretty new - most the major platforms didn't gain support until 2023.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#14

Post by gruez »

exabrial wrote: post #9

Why do you think sms "2fa" is suddenly so popular with banks and other fintechs, despite things like passkeys and u2f, you know things that _actually_ prevent people from breaking into accounts, have existed forever?

Any business vaguely money related knows exactly who you are because of KYC requirements. They don't need to ask for you phone number when they already have your full name, address, birthday, and SSN.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#15

Post by carlosjobim »

socalgal2 wrote: post #5

Great article and good point. I never articulated this as good as the article but, I've always assumed that when I use Uber/Lyft and rate a driver, if I give too many drivers a low rating I'll be banned from the app. I'm not saying I will actually be banned, I have no idea. Rather, I'm saying I fear I will be banned. I mean why not? Any customer that effectively makes the company look bad can be banned by the company…

There's no logical sense for Uber to ban or punish you for giving drivers low scores. The only reason would be if drivers gave you a low score.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#16

Post by sealeck »

exabrial wrote: post #9

Why do you think sms "2fa" is suddenly so popular with banks and other fintechs, despite things like passkeys and u2f, you know things that _actually_ prevent people from breaking into accounts, have existed forever?

Try convincing your customers to all get a YubiKey... it's not fun. The majority of internet users are able to read an SMS on their phone and copy a code, however.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#17

Post by drnick1 »

The real problem here is privacy and anonymity. These discrete "rating systems" used by various companies aren't particularly dangerous as long as they cannot identify users by some common identifier such as name, DOB or address. Got banned by Uber or Amazon? Just create a new account.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#18

Post by crazygringo »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #2

Interesting article. On the one hand, it provides insides into how the project actually worked in china, which I didn't know. That's interesting. But it misses a huge nuance on the whole "dystopian" thing. The main thing about "social score bad" takes is that the government will use that scoring. It's not private private. Everything the author mentions about the various scoring in the US (and EU for that matter, alth…

You're right that the private vs. public is a very important distinction here.

On the other hand, "private" has the downside of falling into unaccountable monopolies/duopolies. You don't have a individual choice about having a credit score, or whether banks can use it, or with which companies. You have no control, there's no accountability.

If credit scores were run by the government, then in theory democratic processes could regulate them in terms of accuracy, privacy, who was allowed to access them, for what purposes, etc. There would be actual accountability to the people, in what that there isn't when it comes to private companies.

While you say "lots of 3rd party rating services... are mainly between you and those 3rd parties", many are not. They're between one 3rd party (a bank, a landlord), and another (Equifax, Experian).

The ones that are, they're eBay, Uber, etc. Which seem more obviously defensible as being privately run.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#19

Post by nemomarx »

socalgal2 wrote: post #5

Great article and good point. I never articulated this as good as the article but, I've always assumed that when I use Uber/Lyft and rate a driver, if I give too many drivers a low rating I'll be banned from the app. I'm not saying I will actually be banned, I have no idea. Rather, I'm saying I fear I will be banned. I mean why not? Any customer that effectively makes the company look bad can be banned by the company…

All of this sounds like normal driving behavior to me? I see it every time I commute to work. I think if you want a driver who doesn't do this you'd need a real commercially registered driver with specific training.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#20

Post by encom »

>Open your phone right now and count the apps that are scoring your behavior.

Zero. Are everyone really that terminally online? I reject most things that use an app. Yesterday I encountered a coffee vending machine that required an app. I walked away. Uncle Ted was right.

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