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Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

lttlabs.com

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Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#11

Post by snailmailman »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #7
snailmailman wrote: post #6

Interesting. I saw some of their video about this the other day. The video gives the impression that Nintendo is intentionally not supporting external monitors that aren’t the official switch dock. But the conclusion on this article seems to lean more towards that it could be a mistake or bug. I guess that might be the case - didn’t they screw up USB-C on the switch 1? I know it’s an incredibly complex standard. I gu…

The ltt video didn’t suggest it was intentional, it was careful not to. But Nintendo were certainly aware of it before release.

It was certainly heavily implied to be intentional. With the title referencing "Nintendo’s greed"[0] and in the first minute they call it “locking down a product, not for a good reason, but just because [nintendo] can, or […] because you”

It’s not until much further in the video that they backtrack a bit and call it “tactical laziness” by Nintendo. Honestly, I did not get that far on my first watch.

[0] YouTube now confusingly shows different titles randomly. I’m seeing “Nintendo’s Greed could Change the Tech Industry” but that may not be its real title for all I know.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#12

Post by unsnap_biceps »

scottapotamas wrote: post #9
parhamn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered how this works (and who wins).

For two DRP (dual role) devices connected to each other, I believe in a default case the one that happens to advertise as a source first just becomes one. The standard allows for a role swap at any point while connected, and if that’s triggered will be dependent on the firmware/config on one or both ends. There’s probably more nuance hiding in the real world hardware too.

According to https://superuser.com/a/1773195

> Any DRP port must have pull-down 5k1 resistors on CC wires (as a sink), AND 10-22-56k pull-ups (as provider), but not at the same time. The DRP then alternates the sink advertising (5k1 pull-downs) with pull-ups (source advertising) about 10 to 20 times per second.

> If another DRP is connected, they both will toggle their advertising until a correct (pull-up - pull-down) combination occurs. Then CC controller(s) will stop toggling, and the end that happens to be in provider mode will provide +5VSAFE VBUS. The process will end in one or other direction, which will happen at random (since frequencies of toggling are independent).

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#13

Post by Gigachad »

snailmailman wrote: post #6

Interesting. I saw some of their video about this the other day. The video gives the impression that Nintendo is intentionally not supporting external monitors that aren’t the official switch dock. But the conclusion on this article seems to lean more towards that it could be a mistake or bug. I guess that might be the case - didn’t they screw up USB-C on the switch 1? I know it’s an incredibly complex standard. I gu…

The Switch 1 had more of an excuse since it was released just as USB-C, particularly the more advanced parts like video out and PD were still very new. And the hardware was likely designed long beforehand.

The Switch 2 came out in a world with widespread standards compliant USB-C.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#14

Post by Barbing »

snailmailman wrote: post #11
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ltt video didn’t suggest it was intentional, it was careful not to. But Nintendo were certainly aware of it before release.

It was certainly heavily implied to be intentional. With the title referencing "Nintendo’s greed"[0] and in the first minute they call it “locking down a product, not for a good reason, but just because [nintendo] can, or […] because you” It’s not until much further in the video that they backtrack a bit and call it “tactical laziness” by Nintendo. Honestly, I did not get that far on my first watch. [0] YouTube now c…

re: [0], that’ll likely be the uploader modifying the title - they test titles and thumbnails until one grabs attention

See Tom Scott video, “this video has 74 million views“ (quantity subject to change in future)

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#15

Post by Gigachad »

snailmailman wrote: post #11
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ltt video didn’t suggest it was intentional, it was careful not to. But Nintendo were certainly aware of it before release.

It was certainly heavily implied to be intentional. With the title referencing "Nintendo’s greed"[0] and in the first minute they call it “locking down a product, not for a good reason, but just because [nintendo] can, or […] because you” It’s not until much further in the video that they backtrack a bit and call it “tactical laziness” by Nintendo. Honestly, I did not get that far on my first watch. [0] YouTube now c…

Modern youtube has uploaders submit multiple thumbnails and headlines, then it AB tests them and selects the one that performed best. Pretty much every news website seems to do the same thing these days too.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#16

Post by behnamoh »

franky47 wrote: post #5

I own a Switch 1, and the other day I wanted to play on the train, but the battery was low. I figured "no problem, I can connect it to my laptop and let it charge off is battery". Nope. The MacBook Pro started charging off the Switch instead.

This happens with one of my powerbanks! If connected to a USB hub as a USB device (not as the power source), it still starts charging my Macbook which is connected to the hub.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#17

Post by viraptor »

Some labels/descriptions could use a bit more polish. For example in test 8 "Averages 15 W delivered to the Switch at maximum." - I kinda see what they mean, but that's a very awkward way to phrase it. The maximum is over 20W. There's a few spikes that go over. I guess that's the maximum for a moving average? For their labs, they could be more precise.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#18

Post by alex_f_k »

From lttlabs:

> The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification

From the verge [0], 2 months ago:

> When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before they sign off on any video output. And then, seemingly before the dock confirms that it’s engaged video-out, they send over 30 proprietary “unstructured” messages to one another.

> […]

> According to Antank, which says it checked with its chip supplier, that hexadecimal string “is indeed the current key being used by Nintendo.” My other sources are less sure.

I'm pretty sure lttl's conclusion is plain wrong. It is not JUST lazy USB-C implementation, but a purposefully designed special proprietary protocol on top of USB-C

[0] https://www.theverge.com/report/695915/switch-2-usb-c-third-...

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#19

Post by gregoryl »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #3

Didn't know LTT's labs was already running. I'll be curious to see how their testing and data compares to gamersnexus testing and what their first catching a manufacturer's lies event will be.

I'm surprised it continues to exist at all. The main content ltt puts out these days is purely mass market entertainment. Physical products are still pretty good!
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