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Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

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Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#11
post #3

How do blue book exams translate to real world problems the students will encounter? Why not open book + AI use exams, because that's what students will have in their careers?

The problem is not that a student can ask AI for answers. The problem is that the student has to have an idea what questions to ask.

For that, the student must have internalized certain concepts, ideas, connections. This is what has to be tested in a connectivity-free environment.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#12
The commenters lamenting this trend presumably have not given a takehome assignment to college students in recent years. The problem is huge and in class tests are basically the only way to test if students are learning. Unfortunately this doesn't solve the problem of AI assisted cheating on in-class exams, which is shockingly prevalent these days at least in STEM settings.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#14
I feel like these kind of things push us as a society to decide what exactly the purpose of school should be.

Currently, it's been a place for acquiring skills but also a sorting mechanism for us to know who the "best" are... I think we've put too much focus on the sorting mechanism aspect, enticing many to cheat without thinking about the fact that in doing so they shortchange themselves of actual skills.

I feel like some of the language here ("securing assessments in response to AI") really feels like they're worried more about sorting than the fact that the kids won't be developing critical thinking skills if they skip that step.

Maybe we can have

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#15
post #4
post #3

How do blue book exams translate to real world problems the students will encounter? Why not open book + AI use exams, because that's what students will have in their careers?

There are many subskills that you must be proficient in without tools, before you can learn more interesting skills. You need to know how to do multiplication by hand before you rely on a calculator. If you can't do multiplication with a calculator, you're not going to be able to make sense of the concepts in Algebra.

There are also many subskills not worth learning to some people. Sometimes traversal is what's needed and not understanding. (Though I'm never going to knock gaining more understanding)

Tools allow traversal of poorly understood, but recognized, subskills in a way that will make one effective in their job. An understanding of the entire stack of knowledge for every skill needed is an academic requirement born out of a lack of real world employment experience. For example, I don't need to know how LLMs work to use them effectively in my job or hobby.

We should stop spending so much time teaching kids crap that will ONLY satisfy tests and teachers but has a much reduced usefulness once they leave school.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#16
post #3

How do blue book exams translate to real world problems the students will encounter? Why not open book + AI use exams, because that's what students will have in their careers?

Can’t use AI on a date, or at a dinner party, or during a board meeting.

Faking intelligence with AI only works in an online-exclusive modality, and there’s a lot of real world circumstances where being able to speak, reason, and interpret on the fly without resorting to a handheld teleprompter is necessary if you want to be viewed positively. I think a lot of people are going to be enraged when they discover that dependency on AI is unattractive once AI is universally accessible. “But I benefited from that advantage! How dare they hold that against me!”

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#17

This is the obvious solution to chatgpt essays. You could also just add more lab sections to CS classes, and force students to do assignments with no access to AI. When I took physics we had weekly 3.5 hour lab sections. That should be enough for most CS assignments.

The lab sections were enough time to run the experiments. Writing up the lab report took additional time outside of that, at least that's how my lab sections went in school.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#18
post #4
post #3

How do blue book exams translate to real world problems the students will encounter? Why not open book + AI use exams, because that's what students will have in their careers?

There are many subskills that you must be proficient in without tools, before you can learn more interesting skills. You need to know how to do multiplication by hand before you rely on a calculator. If you can't do multiplication with a calculator, you're not going to be able to make sense of the concepts in Algebra.

Yes, totally. Relevant study: https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt...

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#19
post #3

How do blue book exams translate to real world problems the students will encounter? Why not open book + AI use exams, because that's what students will have in their careers?

Exactly, this is the reason why I struggle with this sort of solution to the problems we are all facing in education currently. On the surface it seems to make sense, but the blue book exam is entirely artificial and has basically no relationship to real world skills (subconsciously, even the quality of student handwriting handwriting could influence how graders assess blue books). Even leaving AI aside, anyone writi…

It really boils down to: are universities trying to teach abstract knowledge, or are they trade schools?

If they are trade schools, yes teach React and Node using LLMs (or whatever the enabling tools of the day are) and get on with it.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#20
post #3

How do blue book exams translate to real world problems the students will encounter? Why not open book + AI use exams, because that's what students will have in their careers?

Exactly, this is the reason why I struggle with this sort of solution to the problems we are all facing in education currently. On the surface it seems to make sense, but the blue book exam is entirely artificial and has basically no relationship to real world skills (subconsciously, even the quality of student handwriting handwriting could influence how graders assess blue books). Even leaving AI aside, anyone writi…

> Even leaving AI aside, anyone writing anything nowadays is using Google and Wikipedia and word processors, so why constrain those?

And the library, and inter-library loan (in my case), and talking to a professor with a draft...

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