I always though it was after the middle ages that alcohol was consumed for safety reasons. I also remember hearing it wasn't really the general population, but sailors on ships because water on long voyages wouldn't stay fresh very long?
The great medieval water myth (2013)
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Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#12I heard it was a bit more... pre-medieval. More like the cause of the agricultural revolution.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/guest-blog/a-sip-for...
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#13I always thought it quite weird that somehow by virtue of being in beer, that the water somehow becomes sterilised. If you've ever tried home brewing, you'll know that non-sterile conditions lead to foul rancid filth due to all the bacteria etc. I'd find it odd if the people then knew to sterlise the water and equipment to make beer, but then not do the same to drink it.
> I always thought it quite weird that somehow by virtue of being in beer, that the water somehow becomes sterilised.
The reason that water in beer is sterilised is that beer is brewed — i.e. boiled.
> If you've ever tried home brewing, you'll know that non-sterile conditions lead to foul rancid filth due to all the bacteria etc.
I believe that pre–germ-theory brewing practices tended to discourage unwanted microbial activity, in part through inoculation with large amounts of fresh barm. Did they put two and two together and connect those practices in the context of brewing to the broader context of water or food safety? Maybe.
> I'd find it odd if the people then knew to sterilise the water and equipment to make beer, but then not do the same to drink it.
Indeed, the article quotes Paulus: ‘But waters which contain impurities, have a fetid smell, or any bad quality, may be so improved by boiling as to be fit to be drunk.’
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
The more common version of this, which I do remember hearing in history courses in college, was that people in the Middle Ages frequently mixed beer or wine with water. Whether that was done purely for taste, or in the belief that it would make potentially unsafe water safe, and what the details of making water safe to drink by mixing beer or wine with it actually are, I don't know. The author himself makes this poin…
Part of it I think was also that wine, but also likely beer was somewhat expensive. So adding water meant there was more liquid. Mass production and transportation of everything at scales we have is very recent. So adding water to wine made it last longer.
also, recalling from memory, standedge argues that the early perspective on wine was that it was simply a higher order of beer. it makes sense because there earliest beers were not hopped and would probably profile similarly to wine.
however, grape cultivation was more difficult/technical than grain cultivation which elevated the class of wine. it was also prized for its relative stability when diluted, with some maintaining the same (or better) flavor profile when diluted 1:2 water:wine. it was a true show of wealth to serve wine that was less than 1:1. (a history of the world in 6 glasses)
i’ve tried this with a few wine varietals and i can see what he’s saying in some regard, but it definitely alters the profile in ways.
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#15I always thought it quite weird that somehow by virtue of being in beer, that the water somehow becomes sterilised. If you've ever tried home brewing, you'll know that non-sterile conditions lead to foul rancid filth due to all the bacteria etc. I'd find it odd if the people then knew to sterlise the water and equipment to make beer, but then not do the same to drink it.
You don't really need sterile conditions, yeast just need a head start to outcompete other microbes. Then, as alcohol and CO₂ build up, the brew becomes bacteriostatic. Which is still different from being bactericidal.
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#16I always thought it quite weird that somehow by virtue of being in beer, that the water somehow becomes sterilised. If you've ever tried home brewing, you'll know that non-sterile conditions lead to foul rancid filth due to all the bacteria etc. I'd find it odd if the people then knew to sterlise the water and equipment to make beer, but then not do the same to drink it.
I think it's a traveling tip like "always ask for halal option - they have better ingredients" or sth.
People know beer needs specific conditions or it doesn't sell. So they are careful about that.
If you ask for water you might get the water they use for cooking soup or cleaning the mugs and they might not boil it beforehand.
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#17The relevance of beer with regard to water conservation and safe consumption is _not_ because the alcohol sterilizes the fluid. It's because successfully brewed and unfiltered beer forms a relatively stable ecosystem of unproblematic yeasts and lactic acid bacteria which prevent other unsafe micro organisms to take over and multiply. The hop is actually contributing to chemical conservation, though.
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#18My favorite joke derived from this misconception is that the introduction of coffee and it displacing beer as a preferred drink caused the end of the Dark Ages.
I’ll die on this hill, just because I love it so much.
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#19This isn't really a slam dunk debunking. I get that medieval people knew about good and bad water, and that they had other reasons to prefer small drinks. But it doesn't change the facts that:
- Medieval people DID drink constantly (mostly in the form of small drinks)
- SOME medieval didn't have access to consistently good water.
- Even good water supplies can be tainted
There are cases were it was noted that a disease would outbreak from the local water supply, but no one from the brewery next door would get sick. This was not lost on most people, so water was drunk but with some risks assumed.
And most notably, we still see this exact dichotomy today in the third world where dysentery and diarrea are still common causes of death. And people with the means or preference towards prepared drinks often fare better.
Re: The great medieval water myth (2013)
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
Part of it I think was also that wine, but also likely beer was somewhat expensive. So adding water meant there was more liquid. Mass production and transportation of everything at scales we have is very recent. So adding water to wine made it last longer.
also, recalling from memory, standedge argues that the early perspective on wine was that it was simply a higher order of beer. it makes sense because there earliest beers were not hopped and would probably profile similarly to wine. however, grape cultivation was more difficult/technical than grain cultivation which elevated the class of wine. it was also prized for its relative stability when diluted, with some mai…
> ... when diluted 1:2 water:wine. it was a true show of wealth to serve wine that was less than 1:1.
Did you mean 2:1 water:wine? If you meant 1:2 water:wine, then 1:1 would be weaker and I'm not sure how that would show wealth more than stronger wine.