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Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

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Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#11

Post by LoganDark »

cromka wrote: post #10
LoganDark wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand what the difference is between "an ARM chip with native x86 translation" and a dual-ISA x86 and ARM chip. Look at Apple's Rosetta 2 for an example. M-series Apple Silicon has special undocumented modes that mirror x86 architectural quirks that don't usually exist in ARM, in order to support AOT-translated machine code. The chip doesn't support x86 instructions, but it has the amenities to support…

And why wouldn’t Intel be capable of doing the same?

I never said that?

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#12

Post by baq »

testdelacc1 wrote: post #8

Assuming they’re telling the truth, they’ve successfully built one chip from that fab. That’s good, but it doesn’t mean the fab is capable of manufacturing at scale while turning a profit. They need an external customer for the fab so they can iterate and work out the issues. It’s anyone’s guess if someone trusts intel to manufacture on their behalf instead of sticking with an established player. They’re stuck in a c…

That's too pessimistic. In general, customers don't want to be dealing with a monopolist and foundry customers are no different. It's in everyone's interest to solve the unproven process problem, so if Intel has evidence that the process isn't bust, customers will find a product which can be used as a pipe cleaner for mutual benefit.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#13

Post by murderfs »

astrange wrote: post #7
mort96 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what the difference is between "an ARM chip with native x86 translation" and a dual-ISA x86 and ARM chip. And I don't understand why you'd want a dual-ISA x86 and ARM rather than just an x86 chip. You wouldn't get whatever CPU front-end simplicity advantages there are from ARM, since your front-end would get significantly more complex and consume significantly more transistors than with a normal x8…

Fujitsu and Nvidia also implement (at least) TSO. https://threedots.ovh/blog/2021/02/cpus-with-sequential-cons...

Denver does it because it was supposed to be an x86 CPU, but they couldn't get an agreement with Intel for patent licensing, so they pivoted into being the first available aarch64 CPU since decode was happening entirely in software.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#14

Post by zimpenfish »

blackoil wrote: post #6
threatripper wrote: post #4

If we assume that intel gets successful with 18A with their x86 processors, would they even have the money to finance the node after that? And the node after that which gets exponentially more expensive? In the past x86 raked in enough money to burn a lot of it on new fab tech but non-x86 has grown immensely and floods TSMC with money. The problem for intel is that their fab tech was fitted to their processor archite…

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

> Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver.

Given Apple's history with Intel's ability to deliver, I'm guessing the confidence there isn't high.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#15

Post by [deleted] »

blackoil wrote: post #6
threatripper wrote: post #4

If we assume that intel gets successful with 18A with their x86 processors, would they even have the money to finance the node after that? And the node after that which gets exponentially more expensive? In the past x86 raked in enough money to burn a lot of it on new fab tech but non-x86 has grown immensely and floods TSMC with money. The problem for intel is that their fab tech was fitted to their processor archite…

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

[deleted]

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#16

Post by mort96 »

LoganDark wrote: post #5
mort96 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what the difference is between "an ARM chip with native x86 translation" and a dual-ISA x86 and ARM chip. And I don't understand why you'd want a dual-ISA x86 and ARM rather than just an x86 chip. You wouldn't get whatever CPU front-end simplicity advantages there are from ARM, since your front-end would get significantly more complex and consume significantly more transistors than with a normal x8…

> I don't understand what the difference is between "an ARM chip with native x86 translation" and a dual-ISA x86 and ARM chip. Look at Apple's Rosetta 2 for an example. M-series Apple Silicon has special undocumented modes that mirror x86 architectural quirks that don't usually exist in ARM, in order to support AOT-translated machine code. The chip doesn't support x86 instructions, but it has the amenities to support…

That's what I suggested in my comment's last paragraph. I don't think that counts as "an ARM chip with native x86 translation", but really the only person who can say whether that's what dlojudice meant is dlojudice.

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#17

Post by walterbell »

zimpenfish wrote: post #14
blackoil wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

> Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. Given Apple's history with Intel's ability to deliver, I'm guessing the confidence there isn't high.

Are you referring to 5G radio modems or another chip?

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#18

Post by [deleted] »

blackoil wrote: post #6
threatripper wrote: post #4

If we assume that intel gets successful with 18A with their x86 processors, would they even have the money to finance the node after that? And the node after that which gets exponentially more expensive? In the past x86 raked in enough money to burn a lot of it on new fab tech but non-x86 has grown immensely and floods TSMC with money. The problem for intel is that their fab tech was fitted to their processor archite…

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

[deleted]

Re: Intel Foundry demonstrates first Arm-based chip on 18a node

#20

Post by unwind »

nxobject wrote: post #19

Random question: where did the ARM core design come from?

Intel are believed to hold an Arm architectural license [1] as far as I know, they have made Arm-based things in the past.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family#Archit...

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