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The electric fence stopped working years ago

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Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#11

Post by stroz »

lordnacho wrote: post #8

This is right. People ask my how on earth I know what every one of my high school classmates is up to, when we were the last class of the millennium. Along with a number of old teachers and other randoms from years ago. I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I wri…

Thank you so much for sharing this! What you’re doing is honestly amazing. You skip the negotiation about whether we’re allowed to be human with each other. You just assume connection is the default.

The truth is that people mirror the energy you bring. Show up tentative, they’ll be tentative. Show up like old friends, and suddenly you are.

Just refusing to install the system default software that makes us all strangers. And teaching us that the only thing between us and connection is believing we need permission to care.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#12

Post by barbazoo »

Great writeup, lots of wisdom in there. Then I looked for other insightful articles and lo and behold

> Real connection beyond social media.

> Your social operating system. Get perfectly timed reminders to connect with the most important people in your life—never lose touch again.

Obviously it's another app, just another attention rent-seeker that wants to inject itself into human connections so they can make more and more and more money.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#13

Post by tshaddox »

Funny enough, an alleged Chesterton's fence is very likely to be one of these derelict electric fences. People who advocate the "Chesterton's fence" argument (which is similar to and equally misguided as the precautionary principle) are essentially saying "whoever built this fence either didn't understand why they built the fence, or didn't manage to explain their reasoning to other people affected by the fence, and therefore it's our responsibility to either respect the fence forever or invest an unbounded amount of resources trying to discover the reason the fence was built."

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#14

Post by barbazoo »

tshaddox wrote: post #13

Funny enough, an alleged Chesterton's fence is very likely to be one of these derelict electric fences. People who advocate the "Chesterton's fence" argument (which is similar to and equally misguided as the precautionary principle) are essentially saying "whoever built this fence either didn't understand why they built the fence, or didn't manage to explain their reasoning to other people affected by the fence, and…

Chesterton’s fence isn’t “respect it forever” or “spend infinite resources”. It’s “don’t tear it down until you understand why it’s there”. The whole point is to avoid breaking something whose purpose you haven’t yet understood, because the original builders might have had a good reason that isn’t obvious to you. Once you’ve understood it, you’re free to remove it if that reason no longer applies.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#15

Post by nerdponx »

barbazoo wrote: post #14
tshaddox wrote: post #13

Funny enough, an alleged Chesterton's fence is very likely to be one of these derelict electric fences. People who advocate the "Chesterton's fence" argument (which is similar to and equally misguided as the precautionary principle) are essentially saying "whoever built this fence either didn't understand why they built the fence, or didn't manage to explain their reasoning to other people affected by the fence, and…

Chesterton’s fence isn’t “respect it forever” or “spend infinite resources”. It’s “don’t tear it down until you understand why it’s there”. The whole point is to avoid breaking something whose purpose you haven’t yet understood, because the original builders might have had a good reason that isn’t obvious to you. Once you’ve understood it, you’re free to remove it if that reason no longer applies.

Case in point: the electric fence is broken, but that doesn't mean it needs to be fixed.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#17

Post by dyauspitr »

lordnacho wrote: post #8

This is right. People ask my how on earth I know what every one of my high school classmates is up to, when we were the last class of the millennium. Along with a number of old teachers and other randoms from years ago. I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I wri…

This is tangible, easily actionable advice for a lonely society.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#18

Post by mauvehaus »

PaulHoule wrote: post #6

For horses, the electric fence is a psychological barrier. You understand the shock doesn't do real tissue damage, but they don't. [1] If they value freedom and learn that you can crash through the fence and feel just a moment of pain they will crash through the fence. [1] I did find out though, that the fence really hurt a lot more when I was standing in a puddle with cracked rubber boots. I imagine it hurts more if…

For bears, the advice we got from Fish and Wildlife was to bait the fence with aluminum foil smeared with bacon grease. That gets the bear to touch it with their sensitive nose. If they brush up against it with their thick fur, they won't notice. A good zap on the nose will teach them.

I can confirm your note about footwear mattering. I'm way too cheap (read: stupid) to buy an electric fence tester, so I just touch the fence. In dry shoes, it's noticeable. The one time I did it in wet sneakers, it definitely got my attention. For what it's worth, we have about the smallest fencer Tractor Supply sells (it just has to go around the chicken coop). I betcha a 50 mile fencer would just about make your hair stand up on end.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#19

Post by jonahx »

lordnacho wrote: post #8

This is right. People ask my how on earth I know what every one of my high school classmates is up to, when we were the last class of the millennium. Along with a number of old teachers and other randoms from years ago. I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I wri…

> The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me".

Yes. I do this too and wish more people would.

The qualifications, the "what have you been up to?"s -- such mind-numbingly boring conventions. Who wants to go through a "catchup" interview before talking about what's interesting. If that's the price, it's not worth it.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#20

Post by programjames »

barbazoo wrote: post #14
tshaddox wrote: post #13

Funny enough, an alleged Chesterton's fence is very likely to be one of these derelict electric fences. People who advocate the "Chesterton's fence" argument (which is similar to and equally misguided as the precautionary principle) are essentially saying "whoever built this fence either didn't understand why they built the fence, or didn't manage to explain their reasoning to other people affected by the fence, and…

Chesterton’s fence isn’t “respect it forever” or “spend infinite resources”. It’s “don’t tear it down until you understand why it’s there”. The whole point is to avoid breaking something whose purpose you haven’t yet understood, because the original builders might have had a good reason that isn’t obvious to you. Once you’ve understood it, you’re free to remove it if that reason no longer applies.

There is one issue where fences can arise naturally (via evolution), and no one knows why it's there. If your society doesn't even understand evolution yet, are you supposed to just stagnate forever? It's an exploration vs. exploitation tradeoff, and Chesterton's fence is asking for pure exploitation. Probably because societies are pretty fragile, so unless you're really sure something isn't loadbearing, it isn't safe to modify it at scale. But, then again, there's no reason to not experiment on a smaller scale...
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