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Open Banking and Payments Competition

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Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#11

Post by ranger207 »

EGreg wrote: post #4
contingencies wrote: post #2

HN darling but ... thumbs down. Seemingly no insight. Long read (skipped most). IMHO largely valueless opine and supposition. I think we already know bankers bank, corporations can't innovate, and regulations are abused for protectionism.

HN anathema: crypto and blockchain — can and does trivially solve the issues Patrick writes about. You can easily make sure the account has enough money, without knowing whose account it is. Crypto is “buyer beware”. The traditional fintech system is “seller beware”. But crypto is programmable and in theory you could easily make use of arbitration, resolution of disputes, and periodic payouts etc. All without being f…

Crypto and blockchain by itself does not solve any of these problems. It's merely a payments system that happens to be on a computer natively. There's nothing technical preventing banks from getting together and making Open Banking a well-supported thing like they're supposed to be doing; it's all just code and contracts in the end. It's not that they can't, it's that they won't, and they won't for business and political reasons. Crypto is subject to the same pressures but doesn't have the same regulations to constrain their actions. Crypto's better ability to eg do international payments is not because of any technical reason but simply because they don't have the same regulations and inertia of the traditional banking system. While the traditional banking system has problems with its regulations making things too hard to do, many people prefer it to the easier to screw up wild west of crypto payments. Lots of people like the FDIC making sure their savings aren't wiped out if the bank lies on its balance sheet, or the ability to claw back money transfers if someone breaks into their account. Crypto could certainly provide those services and backstops, but they haven't yet, and based on the prevailing attitude amongst the major participants, it's unlikely they will anytime soon. The only real difference between crypto and banks as a payments system is whether or not you want to start from scratch and build up, or start with the existing morass and tear down. The latter is the safer option which many people prefer when it concerns their money

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#12

Post by BrenBarn »

> In the intervening years, that competition has arrived. The banks do not like it, and would prefer it if it went away.

This is the conclusion of most articles about such topics. The conclusion is that we need less "knuckle-raps". Instead, a crippling sledgehammer blow to both kneecaps followed by a warning that the next will be to the skull (of the company, to be clear) unless the banks entirely capitulate, accept a massive reduction in profits and executive pay, and fully open their entire systems.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#14

Post by neoecos »

politician wrote: post #9
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

> Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. It's not really the banks' fault. They're all stuck leasing expensive information systems from entrenched third-party technology shops. They don't have software development dollars and they are extremely risk averse, to a paranoid degree. Thank the regulatory environment for that (state and federal). Compan…

That's why Im really bullish on Column, a tech company with banking license

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#15

Post by matheusmoreira »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

I tried to do something similar not too long ago.

At the time I was using ledger for personal accounting. Ledger is amazing and incredibly flexible. Writing the journals with detailed financial data is way too time consuming though.

I tried to write software to pull this data from the banks. Got in touch with the managers at my bank and everything, they even referred me to their devs. I just needed read only access to my own bank account.

I eventually discovered I needed permission from the goddamn central bank to do this.

I also tried to integrate with my government's electronic consumer receipt systems. The idea was I'd scan the receipt with my phone or laptop camera and it'd download the data and automatically generate a detailed ledger journal entry with individual postings and metadata for every product I purchased. This was going to save me so much time it's not even funny.

I discovered I had to create a corporation to even ask the government for API access to my own data.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#16

Post by toenail »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

I feel you, that’s why I’m my own bank.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#17

Post by toenail »

ranger207 wrote: post #11
EGreg wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN anathema: crypto and blockchain — can and does trivially solve the issues Patrick writes about. You can easily make sure the account has enough money, without knowing whose account it is. Crypto is “buyer beware”. The traditional fintech system is “seller beware”. But crypto is programmable and in theory you could easily make use of arbitration, resolution of disputes, and periodic payouts etc. All without being f…

Crypto and blockchain by itself does not solve any of these problems. It's merely a payments system that happens to be on a computer natively. There's nothing technical preventing banks from getting together and making Open Banking a well-supported thing like they're supposed to be doing; it's all just code and contracts in the end. It's not that they can't , it's that they won't , and they won't for business and pol…

The idea that I’d need anybody’s permission or a regulation to allow me to give my money to somebody else is the problem.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#18

Post by cedws »

neoecos wrote: post #14
politician wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. It's not really the banks' fault. They're all stuck leasing expensive information systems from entrenched third-party technology shops. They don't have software development dollars and they are extremely risk averse, to a paranoid degree. Thank the regulatory environment for that (state and federal). Compan…

That's why Im really bullish on Column, a tech company with banking license

Isn’t that basically every neobank?

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#19

Post by ameliaquining »

politician wrote: post #9
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

> Banks suck so goddamn hard and are allowed to operate without any real competition and don't innovate at all. It's not really the banks' fault. They're all stuck leasing expensive information systems from entrenched third-party technology shops. They don't have software development dollars and they are extremely risk averse, to a paranoid degree. Thank the regulatory environment for that (state and federal). Compan…

This is only true of small banks, not large ones.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#20

Post by tossandthrow »

toenail wrote: post #16
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #7

I just want to easily pull bank/card transactions into my budget app, and the glacial pace of open banking really annoys me. The pace in Canada has been just as slow, although we have Interac for direct person to person transfers already so I'm not sure how much the issue of direct payments applies there. It's really just f**ing ridiculous that some of the earliest and most important digital systems we have are allow…

I feel you, that’s why I’m my own bank.

What does it mean that you are your won bank?

Do you treat your matrass like a bank? Maybe with the pidgin carrier protocol to do money transfers?

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