Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#11

Post by fluidcruft » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:04 PM UTC

tyleo wrote: post #2

I feel like this is low on details. I despise social media comments as HN submissions. What actually happened here?

Yeah I looked at the link and first reaction is there are no receipts and failure to produce receipts registers with me as adequately explained as a "skill issue" (via some sort of corollary to Hanlon's razor). My outrage meter is unmoved.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#12

Post by yohannparis » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:04 PM UTC

Or maybe... FastMail created JMAP, ergo they are the one with the best implementation. Now Apple is working on moving iCloud to JMAP, and are working with FastMail as a JMAP production level service within mail.app.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#13

Post by jbc1 » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:06 PM UTC

Does Fastmail really get push? I have a vague recollection that the reason I’m using their app over native ios Mail is because ios Mail was notifying me about emails with a noticeable delay.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#14

Post by jeffbee » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:12 PM UTC

mpercival531 wrote: post #10

tyleo wrote: post #2

I feel like this is low on details. I despise social media comments as HN submissions. What actually happened here?

iOS Mail app does not support IMAP IDLE like any ordinary email clients. It only supports a proprietary IMAP extension that uses Apple Push Notification Services (APNS) as a sideband channel for IMAP servers to signal the iOS Mail app. Last I researched this (like… years ago), most IMAP-based email providers that are listed by the iOS Settings have implemented the extension, except for Gmail and Exchange. Fastmail th…

Ironically, Google does use APNS to support its own Gmail app on iOS, and for many other reasons. Just not for IMAP.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#15

Post by 1over137 » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:13 PM UTC

yohannparis wrote: post #12

Or maybe... FastMail created JMAP, ergo they are the one with the best implementation. Now Apple is working on moving iCloud to JMAP, and are working with FastMail as a JMAP production level service within mail.app.

Your alternate theory doesn't pass Occam's razor given Apple's general behaviour. Do you have any evidence?

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#16

Post by mpercival531 » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:15 PM UTC

jbc1 wrote: post #13

Does Fastmail really get push? I have a vague recollection that the reason I’m using their app over native ios Mail is because ios Mail was notifying me about emails with a noticeable delay.

It is “notify to pull”.

IMAP servers through APNS ping the iOS Mail about updates in certain pre-registered inboxes. Then iOS Mail re-fetches those inboxes.

The change signal is pushed; the data (inboxes/emails) aren’t.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#17

Post by nerdjon » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:16 PM UTC

tyleo wrote: post #2

I feel like this is low on details. I despise social media comments as HN submissions. What actually happened here?

I am a bit confused here as well, is there a difference between "Push" and the notifications on iOS?

I just checked my emails, I use Amazon Workmail and even that has push support. The only one for me that doesn't is my lesser used gmail.

To my knowledge I get alerts quickly with that email, I have never had an issue of not.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#18

Post by admdly » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:22 PM UTC

yohannparis wrote: post #12

Or maybe... FastMail created JMAP, ergo they are the one with the best implementation. Now Apple is working on moving iCloud to JMAP, and are working with FastMail as a JMAP production level service within mail.app.

Apple uses a proprietary IMAP extension that, until recently, any developer could use by generating a APNS certificate using a reverse engineered endpoint from macOS Server. They’ve since closed this.

Fastmail have had sanctioned access from Apple (via their own APNS topic ID) - https://www.fastmail.com/blog/push-email-now-available-in-io...

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#19

Post by admdly » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:26 PM UTC

mpercival531 wrote: post #10

tyleo wrote: post #2

I feel like this is low on details. I despise social media comments as HN submissions. What actually happened here?

iOS Mail app does not support IMAP IDLE like any ordinary email clients. It only supports a proprietary IMAP extension that uses Apple Push Notification Services (APNS) as a sideband channel for IMAP servers to signal the iOS Mail app. Last I researched this (like… years ago), most IMAP-based email providers that are listed by the iOS Settings have implemented the extension, except for Gmail and Exchange. Fastmail th…

Fastmail have been singled out as they appear to have been given special treatment in the form of an APNS topic ID. Other hosts have been using a reverse engineered endpoint to generate certificates, which has recently been closed.

There’s some discussion on the Apple developer forums - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/778671. The solution for the OP there seems to have been they also will get special treatment, but there remains no route for others to use to get the same.

Re: Apple's Favoritism to Fastmail

#20

Post by mpercival531 » Fri, Aug 08, 2025, 1:27 PM UTC

yohannparis wrote: post #12

Or maybe... FastMail created JMAP, ergo they are the one with the best implementation. Now Apple is working on moving iCloud to JMAP, and are working with FastMail as a JMAP production level service within mail.app.

How iOS Mail gets push inbox updates working with third-party IMAP servers is in the public since 2015/2016 if you look hard enough. That has nothing to do with JMAP the protocol inherently.