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EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

cointelegraph.com

11–20 of 230 posts

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#11
post #3

This seam like a hopeless endeavor. If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. And everyone else will just hate the burdensome bloat, etc. If you know your not a theif having your bags checked after paying is an annoyance

Having your shoes checked before a flight is also an annoyance!

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#12
post #3

This seam like a hopeless endeavor. If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. And everyone else will just hate the burdensome bloat, etc. If you know your not a theif having your bags checked after paying is an annoyance

> people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM.

Does its prevention even help anyway? The adult porn industry is regularly criticized for seeing people choose it over real sexual relationships. Conceivably the same could hold true for CSAM. As in, if you can't access it, you're going to go get the real thing instead.

The narrative that it prevents child abuse sounds good in theory, but what does the data actually tell us?

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#14

I assume this is just a police state overreach rather than genuine intent to stop crime. They must know that anyone actually engaging in criminal activity is going to not be caught by this because they use other forms of encrypted communication.

Continent-wide police overreach.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#15
post #12
post #3

This seam like a hopeless endeavor. If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. And everyone else will just hate the burdensome bloat, etc. If you know your not a theif having your bags checked after paying is an annoyance

> people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. Does its prevention even help anyway? The adult porn industry is regularly criticized for seeing people choose it over real sexual relationships. Conceivably the same could hold true for CSAM. As in, if you can't access it, you're going to go get the real thing instead. The narrative that it prevents child abuse sounds good in theory, but what does the da…

> what does the data actually tell us?

The anecdotal evidence is that most child abusers started with CSAM and continued escalation from there; not that they would have been abusers except for CSAM.

While it has never been proven to be a casual link, Ted Bundy, Brian Mitchell, Mark Bridger, Jeffrey Dahmer, and now Bryan Kohberger all accessed violent pornography before taking their actions. Dahmer stated it was his ritual - consume violent pornography before finding the next victim. Bundy meanwhile stated it was the tipping point for him psychologically, more than any other known factor, even describing it as his "fuel."

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#17
post #3

This seam like a hopeless endeavor. If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. And everyone else will just hate the burdensome bloat, etc. If you know your not a theif having your bags checked after paying is an annoyance

Having your shoes checked before a flight is also an annoyance!

Well. It is if you don't have a bomb isn't it? You trade it for your safety but since you don't die in a firey crash if the person 3 streets over is CSAMing its kinda unfair comparison

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#18
post #5

Seems like all regions of the world all falling into their own particular flavors of authoritarian fascism. EU's better than most but this is absolutely draconian. We all know this won't actually be feasible to implement but the end result of of this infeasibility will be a status quo where everyone is guilty of a crime by default when needed.

Fascism is an ideology very different from the controlled liberal-capitalism of the EU. There is absolutely no push to reduce individualism so it's very wrong to use "fascism".

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#19
post #12
post #3

This seam like a hopeless endeavor. If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. And everyone else will just hate the burdensome bloat, etc. If you know your not a theif having your bags checked after paying is an annoyance

> people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. Does its prevention even help anyway? The adult porn industry is regularly criticized for seeing people choose it over real sexual relationships. Conceivably the same could hold true for CSAM. As in, if you can't access it, you're going to go get the real thing instead. The narrative that it prevents child abuse sounds good in theory, but what does the da…

The data tells us that many child abusers are caught with CSAM as well, so it does jack shit to keep them from abusing kids,

Take your CSAM apologia somewhere else.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#20

I assume this is just a police state overreach rather than genuine intent to stop crime. They must know that anyone actually engaging in criminal activity is going to not be caught by this because they use other forms of encrypted communication.

It'd be extremely easy to circumvent, too. Since the scanning runs client-side on images uploaded into the messenger, you just need an app to mangle and unmangle images. XOR the pixels in your payload with a picture of static, then do it again on the other side.

It does not need to be particularly secure—the messages are still E2E encrypted so long as nothing trips the client-side scanner.

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