Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy? • Hacker News Board

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#11

Post by rdm_blackhole » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:22 PM UTC

jjcob wrote: post #8

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #3

Matrix may not be safe but is Wire going to be safe from Chat Control? Most likely no. So I don't see how trading one surveillance state for another will help.

When you're a EU company or a EU government it makes a difference if your supplier is subject to EU surveillance laws or UK surveillance laws. As far as I can tell it comes down to: - are you afraid of foreign espionage vs. - are you afraid of your own government

Let's put it this way, if the Russians get my ID and a picture of my face and know my kinks and my religious preferences what is the worst that can happen?

Now, if my government knows everything there is about me and one day decides to crack down on dissidents or hand them out to another foreign power as it was done in WW2 with the Jews in the Netherlands? Well, that is on another level.

We have be down this road before. It never ends well.

Maybe it's been too long and people forget. My grandparents lived through WW2, from what they told me, the capacity for humans to inflict pain and suffering on other humans knows no bounds.

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#12

Post by rdm_blackhole » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:23 PM UTC

jeltz wrote: post #4

I don't see how Wire is any safer if they operate in Germany. The EU is perfectly able to go against Wire then.

They are not any safer. If/when Chat Control passes, they will bend the knee. That is all there is to it.

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#13

Post by clueless » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:23 PM UTC

Catbert59 wrote: post #7

The only safe communication is decentralized communication, capable of multiplexing multiple techniques (IP, BLE, LoRa, etc.) under the hood of cryptographically safe routing and messaging algorithms that work over unreliable links. Maybe even with small-range offline radio mailboxes so you can deliver and gather messages from/to highly suppressed people which then can be send back into the "online" network automatic…

does such an open source project exist?

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#14

Post by Catbert59 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:25 PM UTC

clueless wrote: post #13

Catbert59 wrote: post #7

The only safe communication is decentralized communication, capable of multiplexing multiple techniques (IP, BLE, LoRa, etc.) under the hood of cryptographically safe routing and messaging algorithms that work over unreliable links. Maybe even with small-range offline radio mailboxes so you can deliver and gather messages from/to highly suppressed people which then can be send back into the "online" network automatic…

does such an open source project exist?

A lot of people metion "Reticulum" in this regard. But that's a one-man-show project.

The only project that got some serious momentum is Meshtastic. That's decentralized LoRa with flooding/next-hop-routing that can be backed with MQTT.

I think a huge step forward would be a decentralized BLE LE (a super robust Bluetooth Low Energy mode) Mesh based application as it can be used on smartphones.

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#15

Post by anonzzzies » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:25 PM UTC

Catbert59 wrote: post #7

The only safe communication is decentralized communication, capable of multiplexing multiple techniques (IP, BLE, LoRa, etc.) under the hood of cryptographically safe routing and messaging algorithms that work over unreliable links. Maybe even with small-range offline radio mailboxes so you can deliver and gather messages from/to highly suppressed people which then can be send back into the "online" network automatic…

That's it. Also prevents from chat control being effective. Who is working in that space? I see this as an answer to many privacy/gov overreach issues.

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#16

Post by The_President » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:28 PM UTC

Unfortunately we have had to remove Matrix-Element from production after user frustration and concerns with quality. While the concept is excellent, the implementation of Element is janky and caused so much friction that users would not depend on it. Concerns about other potential issues become more common within the technical team when the frontend has become substandard in a professional environment.

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#17

Post by udev4096 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:30 PM UTC

What does this even mean? Matrix can be hosted by anyone and anywhere with full control, unlike wire which is a centralized chat app owned by AWS

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#18

Post by Arathorn » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:31 PM UTC

This article is fundamentally false - we addressed it on https://element.io/blog/addressing-fear-uncertainty-and-doub...

dang: is HN really the place for competitive marketing crap like this?

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#19

Post by forty » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:33 PM UTC

Weird argument: "they are in the UK, which is not in the EU, bouh! Look at us, we are in Switzerland, which is... also not in the EU..."

Re: Matrix Is Not Safe for EU Data Privacy?

#20

Post by udev4096 » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

Arathorn wrote: post #18

This article is fundamentally false - we addressed it on https://element.io/blog/addressing-fear-uncertainty-and-doub... dang: is HN really the place for competitive marketing crap like this?

I can't believe how it reached the top. Either bots or intentional upvotes from competitors. Wire sucks anyway. Matrix ftw!