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Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

ponylang.io

11–20 of 284 posts

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#11

I wish these language websites would put an example of some code right there on the homepage so I can see what the language "feels" like. I finally found some code in the tutorials https://tutorial.ponylang.io/getting-started/hello-world

I was also wondering what kind of language this is and where they were hiding all the code. Even the tutorial requires clicking past several pages of (more) introduction before you get to see any code. Probably better to lead with the code. Less waffling, more code would be my recommendation.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#12
post #7

I gave it an honest look for 5 minutes and after still only having found a 3-line hello world I gave up (and came here to complain). It's great that you have all that philosophy behind it, all sounded great, but if you don't show me a compelling example in the first minute or two, not even in tutorial, then you'll fail to capture my interest.

Example pony applications: https://github.com/ponylang/ponyc/tree/main/examples Playground: https://playground.ponylang.io/ They're on HP https://www.ponylang.io/ unfortunately the article link points to /discover/

Sure, if I go dig deep I'll find that. But I was talking about the sales pitch. Once it's necessary to go click links in a levels-down comment in the HN discussion section, you've already lost most folks.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#13
This is probably my favorite programming language I would like to use if it had more backing. Their reference capabilities in particular seem like a very good match for the actor model. Alas, it does not appear to have a large corporation behind it pushing it forward, nor a compelling niche use case (e.g. it is still GC'd).

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#14

I wish these language websites would put an example of some code right there on the homepage so I can see what the language "feels" like. I finally found some code in the tutorials https://tutorial.ponylang.io/getting-started/hello-world

Exactly. A "try language" demo should dive right into an editable executor with syntax highlighting and API-docs floating tool tip code completion. Make it as painless and fast to understand as possible.

You mean this executor[0] which is linked right there on the page we are discussing here?

[0]: http://playground.ponylang.io/

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. A "try language" demo should dive right into an editable executor with syntax highlighting and API-docs floating tool tip code completion. Make it as painless and fast to understand as possible.

You mean this executor[0] which is linked right there on the page we are discussing here? [0]: http://playground.ponylang.io/

They should probably put more than three lines of code in there?

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#16
The difference between Pony and Rust is that Pony allows easy reference cycle.

One of the innovative point of Pony is the iso reference. iso reference means that an object graph is accessible from only that iso reference. It avoids sharing mutable data.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#17

I wish these language websites would put an example of some code right there on the homepage so I can see what the language "feels" like. I finally found some code in the tutorials https://tutorial.ponylang.io/getting-started/hello-world

Honestly, I get it. The document wants to tell you what's new and different under the hood, not what the language looks like superficially. Code examples don't actually tell you what the language feels like in production. It's kinda like judging a person's character by how they dress.

I would be torn if I had to write intro documentation like this. On the one hand, people demand code examples, but on the other hand, the majority of people reading code examples will nitpick minor pet peeves in the syntax and completely detract from the actual new ideas and concepts that go way beyond just the syntax.

I found the descriptions of the concepts very enlightening and I honestly think they gave me a better idea of what the language would “feel like” to program in than a code example (or a description of the syntax) would have.

In theory, syntax should be interchangeable. It's conceivable to parse a syntax into an AST and reexpress it in another syntax without changing the AST. In practice, this is not done for many reasons (incl. tooling like diffs) but a big reason is that individual bits and bobs of the syntax are tied to the new concepts in subtle ways. There could absolutely be multiple syntaxes for the same concept, but if the concept is new, even in small and unobvious ways, then no prior existing language’s syntax will map it exactly. For this reason, a code example can't really express the new concept, especially if the syntax is superficially similar to another language that doesn't actually have that concept.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#18
post #7

I gave it an honest look for 5 minutes and after still only having found a 3-line hello world I gave up (and came here to complain). It's great that you have all that philosophy behind it, all sounded great, but if you don't show me a compelling example in the first minute or two, not even in tutorial, then you'll fail to capture my interest.

I personally found the descriptions of the concepts and ideas more illuminating and interesting than a code example. If you're only looking to nitpick the superficial syntax, kinda like judging a person's character by how they dress, then I guess you're not in the target audience for this documentation.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#19

>This is a type declaration. The keyword actor means we are going to define an actor, which is a bit like a class in Python, Java, C#, C++, etc. Pony has classes too, which we’ll see later. > The difference between an actor and a class is that an actor can have asynchronous methods, called behaviours. We’ll talk more about that later. Who wrote this[1]? The Doctor? [1] https://tutorial.ponylang.io/getting-started/how…

I personally thought it was pretty well-written. It sticks to the details that are relevant in the moment so it doesn't detract or get bogged down, but it does let you know what other things are there so it doesn't feel limited or barebones.

Re: Pony: An actor-model, capabilities-secure, high-performance programming language

#20

I wish these language websites would put an example of some code right there on the homepage so I can see what the language "feels" like. I finally found some code in the tutorials https://tutorial.ponylang.io/getting-started/hello-world

The syntax is the least interesting thing about the language, and hello-world examples demonstrate almost none of the syntax.

This bit from the About page is notable: "never write a programming language. That’s like rule #1. Everybody will just tell you it isn’t needed and then argue about syntax."

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