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It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

persuasion.community

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Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#11

Post by lazyeye »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #4

> and all of which has historically been true in all kinds of ways. But precisely because of that, if you’re not thinking about what’s happening to boys and how they are being raised, then that can actually hurt women. … And I will say, as “progressives,” Democrats, progressive parents, enlightened ones, we’ve made that mistake sometimes in terms of our rhetoric. And this is partially why young men have turned to tox…

Maybe you are overthinking this.

Maybe it's a case of "if you don't like me, then I don't like you..."

And I dont think anyone in this situation would ever consider the opposing party "enlightened"

Now maybe it's become "we still don't like you but we need to say things to get your vote..."

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#12

Post by AndrewKemendo »

potsandpans wrote: post #9
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #8

This isn’t the position most people want to hear but: You can’t have mutual trust and equivalence between any two affinity groups at a large enough scale over the longest period, because there are biological costs to existence and reproduction that cannot be overcome. > The idea that being pro-male means being anti-female is a hard one to overcome. I get it; but also, people have to get over it. This is not a tenable…

There are a handful of modern philosophers that tend to discuss the necessity of a "post humanity". I think that your comment covers one of the primary vectors that this argunent can be approached.

Indeed, MOST people should be thinking about the posthumanity world more or less constantly

I’m frankly not sure why anyone would do or think about anything else, but then, I’ve had that position since I read Kurzweil in 1997; so I don’t think it’s going to change

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#13

Post by adastra22 »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #10
ToDougie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of my orientation week before freshman year. They separated us by race and then told every group what special resources they had on campus and all the additional support they would receive. My group had none of these advantages bestowed upon us. At the time I found it bizarre and jarring because I had been trained to think that what I was experiencing was a "good" thing. This was almost 20 years ago.

If there is one constant in this country it's that the racists will be racist and think that just because they are racist that everyone else must be.

What's bad about the post you are responding to is the people involved think they are not racist. In fact, they think that they are actively fighting racism by doing this.

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#14

Post by lubujackson »

Take a group of people. Divide them into two groups. Tell half of them they are victims of injustice and the other half that they are privileged and owe the other half something.

When has this ever produced anything positive? For either side?

We do this from preschool on up, and it has only made everything worse. Bring back the "melting pot" concept, please. Underline our similarities and shared goals. Both political parties are weakening our unity as much as they can.

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#15

Post by duxup »

seydor wrote: post #6

American politics is weird and basically a list of grievances. Female/feminist politics make sense because they are addressed to a more powerful group (men) which yields. Men don't have anyone to petition to, so it won't happen.

I think the GOP have made themselves the party for those men. I think how the sell it is pure BS, but I think they are that party none the less.

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#16

Post by bsder »

The issue is the framing: "men have privilege".

The problem is the vast majority of men have very, very little privilege. Most of them are oppressed by the men who do have privilege just like everybody else. Telling the vast majority of men who do not have privilege that they have to "sacrifice" to fix the situation is just going to make them angry.

Being a man sucks, too. We know this from women go into blue collar jobs, somehow manage to overcome the sexism only to discover on the other side that nobody gives two shits about them, how they're feeling, whether they're hurt, etc. We know this from female to male transitioners who suddenly encounter the fact that they are now suddenly invisible to general society. The studies go on and on.

We are in this thing together, and we need to help each other out.

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#17

Post by penultimatename »

lubujackson wrote: post #14

Take a group of people. Divide them into two groups. Tell half of them they are victims of injustice and the other half that they are privileged and owe the other half something. When has this ever produced anything positive? For either side? We do this from preschool on up, and it has only made everything worse. Bring back the "melting pot" concept, please. Underline our similarities and shared goals. Both political…

The civil rights movement in the US in the mid-20th century didn’t produce anything positive? The women’s rights movement?

I’d say the lack of sharecroppers, let alone slaves, and the right of women to vote and speak freely is positive.

I understand what you’re getting at, but you’re ignoring quite a bit of history that brought us to where we are today.

Re: It's Time to Take on the Male Malaise

#18

Post by culopatin »

adastra22 wrote: post #13
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is one constant in this country it's that the racists will be racist and think that just because they are racist that everyone else must be.

What's bad about the post you are responding to is the people involved think they are not racist. In fact, they think that they are actively fighting racism by doing this.

When the fact that everything is seen through the race filter ALL the time is what keeps racism alive.
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