I wonder how this study can be reconciled with the carnivorous diet, which is apparently high in good fats and good cholesterol. There is also the notion of structured water and a deficient exclusion zone which could explain the presence of plaque in the vessels according to Thomas Cowan, for example. So, I'm not sure that the factors that prevent plaque formation are those indicated. Nutrition is a complex matter.
Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
11–20 of 62 posts
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#12I wonder how much of our diet contributes to these gut microbes?
Massively. Changing diet is about the only realistic way to elicit long-term changes in the microbiome. Even taking probiotics doesn't last very long.
There's a lot of questionable microbiome science that hasn't been replicated. You can find a lot of studies that say something changes the microbiome, but it's almost always a single short-term observational study on a small group of people.
Realistically, increasing vegetable intake and reducing processed food intake are the easiest knobs you can turn to adjust the microbiome. A lot of people reach for supplements or imagine extreme measures like fecal transplants, but the practical solution is to simply buy some snacking vegetables every time you go to the store and eat them throughout the day.
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#13"another shocking finding: atherosclerosis was ubiquitous"... yikes, can't wait till this inhibitor makes it to market.
Anyway, fascinating. As time goes on, more "lifestyle diseases" will be root-caused like this, rather than just being due to "personal choice" and "willpower". There are a ton of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease
1. Ulcers: (stress?)... now root-caused to H.pylori infection.
2. Atherosclerosis (Bad diet? Lack of exercise?)... now maybe root-caused.
3. ?
Yes, sure, lifestyle has something to do with any or all of these. But how much seems debatable.
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#14"another shocking finding: atherosclerosis was ubiquitous"... yikes, can't wait till this inhibitor makes it to market. Anyway, fascinating. As time goes on, more "lifestyle diseases" will be root-caused like this, rather than just being due to "personal choice" and "willpower". There are a ton of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease 1. Ulcers: (stress?)... now root-caused to H.pylori infection. 2. A…
> As time goes on, more "lifestyle diseases" will be root-caused like this, rather than just being due to "personal choice" and "willpower".
The article directly says that diet and lifestyle factors are associated with levels of imidazole propionate
> When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising, following a healthy diet, and not smoking. The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products.
It's easy to be lured into the idea that diseases are inflicted upon us by nature at random rather than the result of our lifestyle, but in cases like this it's lifestyle and diet that shape the activity of the bacteria.
> Ulcers: (stress?)... now root-caused to H.pylori infection.
This is also a misunderstanding of the research. About half of ulcers are caused by NSAID overuse. NSAID overuse is associated with stress, too. Even without NSAIDs, stress is associated with increased stomach acid production, which amplifies susceptibility to ulcers.
So it's not correct to wave it all away and say that it's all random bacterial infections. NSAIDs are a common source, and stress can amplify susceptibility to ulcers from either cause.
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
My immediate thought was "well, what do these bacteria feed on?".
A quick Google search reveals these bacteria produce the imidazole propionate from histidine. Unfortunately, histidine is an essential amino acid (necessary for life and our bodies can't produce it so we need it in our diet).
The bacteria in your microbiome aren't a fixed quantity. Changing diet will change the microbiome over time.
The researchers found that healthier diets and lifestyle were associated with lower levels of imidazole propionate. Trying to starve the bacteria of precursors isn't practical.
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#16"A team of Spanish scientists made a striking announcement 15 years ago: they were seeking thousands of volunteers among the employees of Banco Santander in Madrid: researchers wanted to study them in depth for decades, in order to understand the onset of cardiovascular disease in healthy people." Is there a project like this one can join in the US? I've always wanted to contribute to a biomedical study.
"Cohort study" is the broader term for this type of work. For heart disease, the Framingham Heart Study (in Framingham MA) is a foundational one in the US.
It's not really something you can go looking to volunteer for though, someone has to be putting together a cohort study (which is a big expensive long term project) on a group that you happen to be part of, and you can agree to participate in it.
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#17"another shocking finding: atherosclerosis was ubiquitous"... yikes, can't wait till this inhibitor makes it to market. Anyway, fascinating. As time goes on, more "lifestyle diseases" will be root-caused like this, rather than just being due to "personal choice" and "willpower". There are a ton of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease 1. Ulcers: (stress?)... now root-caused to H.pylori infection. 2. A…
> As time goes on, more "lifestyle diseases" will be root-caused like this, rather than just being due to "personal choice" and "willpower". The article directly says that diet and lifestyle factors are associated with levels of imidazole propionate > When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple it is to prevent them, with measures su…
>So it's not correct to wave it all away and say that it's all random bacterial infections
That is not what I said (per my comment "Yes, sure, lifestyle has something to do with any or all of these.") But it seems likely we'll find that lifestyle and diet are not the only cause, maybe not even the primary one.
>>> When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising, following a healthy diet, and not smoking. The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products.
So... cardiovascular problems can be "prevented" with those simple measures? It seems likely there are some non-smoking marathoner vegans that have died of heart attacks. But maybe he was mis-translated.
>About half of ulcers are caused by NSAID overuse.
(From https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8002800/: "NSAIDs are second to Helicobacter pylori infection in causing peptic ulceration in the upper GI tract.")
I didn't know that! Thank you, that is very interesting.
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#18I wonder how this study can be reconciled with the carnivorous diet, which is apparently high in good fats and good cholesterol. There is also the notion of structured water and a deficient exclusion zone which could explain the presence of plaque in the vessels according to Thomas Cowan, for example. So, I'm not sure that the factors that prevent plaque formation are those indicated. Nutrition is a complex matter.
Stop listening to cranks and grifters
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#19I wonder how much of our diet contributes to these gut microbes?
Re: Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis
#20thought that was going to be about TMAO (Trimethylamine N-Oxide)
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.120....
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9235870/figure/F1/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6213249/figure/nutr...