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Hand: open-source Robot Hand

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Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#11

Post by imtringued »

fusslo wrote: post #9
stefanka wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most tendons materials are elastic. That lead to create calibration problems and require proprioceptive sensors in the hand

Huh, never thought of that I wonder if companies are experimenting with materials like UHMWPE for non-elastic, high strength-to-diameter tendons. I dont know if you'd have to weld the dyneema to the anchor points, though

I think you're misunderstanding the essence of the problem. If you use tendons, you'll need a neural network in your control loop that can learn continuously so that it compensates rope stretch and changes in friction through wear and tear.

A lot of problems in robotics reduce down to continual learning. Essentially all system identification tasks become obsolete the moment you have a self learning system and yet we have an AI industry preaching that AGI is around the corner without this "crutch".

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#12

Post by atrus »

mft_ wrote: post #7

This looks like a nice, approachable robotic model of a human hand that can be printed and experimented with. But... is a human hand the best design for a robot to grip things with? Or could we surmise that the human hand evolved as a pretty good hand given the materials and senses that were available to evolve humans from , while in theory a totally different design might be optimal for gripping when constructed fro…

Depends on what you mean by best ofc :P

If anything, the human world is built for humans, so a lot of existing things are naturally compatible with human hands. Also, take into account flexibility. It might not be the best for one job, but it's really okay at a lot of jobs.

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#13

Post by magicmicah85 »

mft_ wrote: post #7

This looks like a nice, approachable robotic model of a human hand that can be printed and experimented with. But... is a human hand the best design for a robot to grip things with? Or could we surmise that the human hand evolved as a pretty good hand given the materials and senses that were available to evolve humans from , while in theory a totally different design might be optimal for gripping when constructed fro…

Is there a better design? I ask this genuinely, I really don't know but I suspect that the human hand is versatile enough to allow it to be programmable for a variety of tasks.

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#14

Post by mandeepj »

mft_ wrote: post #7

This looks like a nice, approachable robotic model of a human hand that can be printed and experimented with. But... is a human hand the best design for a robot to grip things with? Or could we surmise that the human hand evolved as a pretty good hand given the materials and senses that were available to evolve humans from , while in theory a totally different design might be optimal for gripping when constructed fro…

You can make it switchable! Think of it more like a dye, if that helps.

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#15

Post by stefanka »

fusslo wrote: post #9
stefanka wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most tendons materials are elastic. That lead to create calibration problems and require proprioceptive sensors in the hand

Huh, never thought of that I wonder if companies are experimenting with materials like UHMWPE for non-elastic, high strength-to-diameter tendons. I dont know if you'd have to weld the dyneema to the anchor points, though

Roboy used dyneema tendons if I recall correctly. Fluidic actuators is another option. IMO, additional sensors and sensor fusion are necessary but this will raise the costs and demand to control software significantly. We are researching humanoid robots for quite some decades now and these problems are easily underestimated (similarly to autonomous driving). I doubt we'll see them in our houses very soon.

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#17

Post by stefanka »

imtringued wrote: post #11
fusslo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, never thought of that I wonder if companies are experimenting with materials like UHMWPE for non-elastic, high strength-to-diameter tendons. I dont know if you'd have to weld the dyneema to the anchor points, though

I think you're misunderstanding the essence of the problem. If you use tendons, you'll need a neural network in your control loop that can learn continuously so that it compensates rope stretch and changes in friction through wear and tear. A lot of problems in robotics reduce down to continual learning. Essentially all system identification tasks become obsolete the moment you have a self learning system and yet we…

Not to mention that they easily break and are annoyingly tedious to be replaced (I had to assist often enough on such "surgeries" in our lab)

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#18

Post by a_wild_dandan »

mft_ wrote: post #7

This looks like a nice, approachable robotic model of a human hand that can be printed and experimented with. But... is a human hand the best design for a robot to grip things with? Or could we surmise that the human hand evolved as a pretty good hand given the materials and senses that were available to evolve humans from , while in theory a totally different design might be optimal for gripping when constructed fro…

Our modern world was built for hand-havers, so we build hand-havers for general interaction with the modern world. This vicious cycle will end, but a certain amount of inertial clunkiness is inevitable in nascent technological disruptions. Especially in moments as grand as the second industrial revolution.

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#19

Post by amelius »

imtringued wrote: post #11
fusslo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, never thought of that I wonder if companies are experimenting with materials like UHMWPE for non-elastic, high strength-to-diameter tendons. I dont know if you'd have to weld the dyneema to the anchor points, though

I think you're misunderstanding the essence of the problem. If you use tendons, you'll need a neural network in your control loop that can learn continuously so that it compensates rope stretch and changes in friction through wear and tear. A lot of problems in robotics reduce down to continual learning. Essentially all system identification tasks become obsolete the moment you have a self learning system and yet we…

You could add encoder patterns to the tendons, like stripes. And then use something like a mouse-sensor to track them. This is still much lighter than servos.

Another idea is to use an external camera or two and to track the fingers with a deep learning model. But this can become messy if other objects are in view. And it might also introduce more control delay in the feedback loop than a simple sensor.

Re: Hand: open-source Robot Hand

#20

Post by stefanka »

imtringued wrote: post #11
fusslo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, never thought of that I wonder if companies are experimenting with materials like UHMWPE for non-elastic, high strength-to-diameter tendons. I dont know if you'd have to weld the dyneema to the anchor points, though

I think you're misunderstanding the essence of the problem. If you use tendons, you'll need a neural network in your control loop that can learn continuously so that it compensates rope stretch and changes in friction through wear and tear. A lot of problems in robotics reduce down to continual learning. Essentially all system identification tasks become obsolete the moment you have a self learning system and yet we…

You don't necessarily need neural networks for that, there are more specialized function approximations that learn faster and enable life-long learning for kinematics/dynamics and extrapolate better than NN which are more general purpose.
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