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Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#11

Post by fpgeek »

rustynails77 wrote: post #8
jerrya wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're both wrong! I like the hardware of the SGII I have, and I would prefer the hardware of the Galaxy Note, or the Galaxy Note II. But also, remove TouchWiz, and still the Galaxy Note II has some very nice and innovative software allowing for pseudo-windowing on Android, as well as "Pen" aware apps.

The problem is that when Samsung customise Android, they do so to (a) differentiate, and (b) to ensure you can't upgrade. On a more "on topic" note, this juror is a turkey. As another poster pretty much said "prior art can not be ignored".

Here's another gem:

"Just to make it clear, the phone that I have is a Motorola Droid X2 and the reason I'm mentioning that is because it is in the record, it was told to the judge and told to the court when asked that question.

And it is of a slider variety so it has a normal keyboard, and for that reason it's not among the 26 accused phones. "

The Droid X2, of course, isn't a slider. The juror probably has a Droid 2.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#12

Post by ars »

cremnob wrote: post #10
ars wrote: post #5

This quote really bugs me: "Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error." That's just wrong - if it was correct then you could say the same thing about samsung: Samsung's code won't run an an Apple machine, so…

Here is his full answer: "Prior art was considered. But the stipulation under the law is for the prior art to be sufficient to negate or invalidate Apple's patents in this case, it had to be sufficiently similar or, more importantly, it had to be interchangeable. And in example after example, when we put it to the test, the older prior art was just that. Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but th…

I read the full quote and it's wrong. Period.

If "interchangeable code" was the standard then why apply it only to prior art? Why not apply it to future art as well? (Samsungs implementation.)

It looks like this jury just made stuff up. And I really hope the judgment gets completely tossed for this. The judge has yet to rule on that (although it's rare to toss a jury verdict since they actually are allowed to make stuff up to some degree - lookup Jury nullification, so I'm not really expecting it to be tossed).

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#13

Post by neya »

>Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error.

That guy is just bullshitting everyone and assuming we are all idiots. The same could be said for Apple too, in defense of Samsung, right?

EDIT: The way I see it - He supports Apple simply because he is in the same shoes as Apple himself. Do you know what patent this guy owns?

It is a 'very innovative patent' just like Apple's 'rounded corners'.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sec...

Now you see, why he's supporting Apple. Both own BS patents.

Actually, this verdict should have been expected - The court is in the country of the infringer (Apple), The lawyers are from the same country and the money is also from the same country. There is no reason as to why people should support Samsung (Korean) than they should support Apple (in an unfair world). Apple has easy access to every kind of influence you could think of. This leads us to several conclusions:

1) One who has more money in this is system called 'democracy' RULES this system, because they automatically gain all the power they need. Including support from all legal systems and governments.

2) If you assumed everything happened in a fair platform, without exchange of money illegally, then your assumptions are plain wrong. Apple has a lot of money..even more than Samsung, it is easier for Apple to payout the necessary guys in the legal system and still not leak it outside to anyone, than it is for Samsung. This is NOT to confirm they bribed someone, but just to let you know that there is a very high probability of them doing so.

Why do I think so? Think about this fact: Apple has sued numerous competitors using their BS patents and has won several times. Numerous competitors have sued Apple and none of them have had a fair victory yet. Surely there is something fishy going on here.

Also to be noted - Apple has more money than any of their competitors.

3) I suspect even Samsung's lawyers could have been manipulated, because they all seem slightly dumb to me (on purpose?).

In all its entirety, this whole legal system and patent system is just a clever way for the people involved to make money. Tomorrow, if you plan to start a phone company, just keep all this in mind; You are as vulnerable as Samsung is to get sued for BS reasons by such patent trolls (Apple).

A little personal:

I wanted to buy a tablet for my mom, I was seriously considering the iPad 2, because it still is a really good tablet. After all this BS, I've decided not to buy any of their products, even though in the end, loss of a single user is not going to matter to them. But I am pretty sure that there is strength in numbers. I sincerely plead everyone to boycott Apple and its products, because if its going to be more than just one user(me), it WILL surely have an impact on them. Hopefully, they will learn not to repeat all this shitty behavior again.

A little deeper:

Actually, if you are against Apple for such bad behavior, you have no other choice, than to boycott them. A few months back, my idea was to create a better tablet than Apple did and show the world that they aren't the only ones who can do it and they are over-hyped as hell. I contacted Chinese OEM's, display guys, etc. But, later I realized, it will be of no use, because I will be as vulnerable as Samsung was...and I don't even have the money to defend myself or my tablet startup. Hence the only way to screw Apple right now is to stop buying their products.

Thanks for reading.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#14

Post by johnx123-up »

neya wrote: post #13

>Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error. That guy is just bullshitting everyone and assuming we are all idiots. The same could be said for Apple too, in defense of Samsung, right? EDIT: The way I see it -…

I don't think, all lawyers are on Apple side. Refer http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4458963

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#15

Post by jeltz »

neya wrote: post #13

>Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error. That guy is just bullshitting everyone and assuming we are all idiots. The same could be said for Apple too, in defense of Samsung, right? EDIT: The way I see it -…

I have no idea if there were any bribes involved. But one should be careful to blame money where just nationalism and fanboyism could explain it. The head of the jury seems also to be a patent troll.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#16

Post by andyjohnson0 »

upinsmoke wrote: post #3
antihero wrote: post #2

Ideal outcome: Samsung keeps producing awesome handsets, but uses stock Android instead of Touchwiz.

They won't. It will be very hard to differentiate themselves from thousands of other Android devices.

Touchwiz provides them with differentiation, but not in a positive way.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#17

Post by crash013 »

neya wrote: post #13

>Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error. That guy is just bullshitting everyone and assuming we are all idiots. The same could be said for Apple too, in defense of Samsung, right? EDIT: The way I see it -…

I am going to be disillusioned with HN if this uninformed speculation isn't buried.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#18

Post by neya »

crash013 wrote: post #17
neya wrote: post #13

>Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error. That guy is just bullshitting everyone and assuming we are all idiots. The same could be said for Apple too, in defense of Samsung, right? EDIT: The way I see it -…

I am going to be disillusioned with HN if this uninformed speculation isn't buried.

So you conclude the patent system and the legal structure is fine as it is? Because, my conclusion is the opposite from all the points I make above.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#19

Post by sbuk »

This is getting rediculous. This has been discussed as nauseum without either side agreeing. Picking over the bones of the trial while writing untold paragraphs about the whys and whatfores is wasting cycles. Wait until the appeal, of it is allowed, and see.

One thing to note though. There has been an awful lot of cogantive bias exhibited by both sides. It must stop. It just leads to flaming and even more wasted time.

Re: Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict

#20

Post by cremnob »

ars wrote: post #12
cremnob wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is his full answer: "Prior art was considered. But the stipulation under the law is for the prior art to be sufficient to negate or invalidate Apple's patents in this case, it had to be sufficiently similar or, more importantly, it had to be interchangeable. And in example after example, when we put it to the test, the older prior art was just that. Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but th…

I read the full quote and it's wrong. Period. If "interchangeable code" was the standard then why apply it only to prior art? Why not apply it to future art as well? (Samsungs implementation.) It looks like this jury just made stuff up. And I really hope the judgment gets completely tossed for this. The judge has yet to rule on that (although it's rare to toss a jury verdict since they actually are allowed to make st…

"Interchangeable code" wasn't the standard. In fact "interchangeable code" doesn't appear anywhere in the article. What would have invalidated Apple's patent was if the implementation in their patent was "sufficiently similar" to the prior art's implementation. They found that it wasn't, so the patent wasn't invalidated.

I posted the full answer not for your benefit, but for other HN readers. You cherry-picked one part of his answer that gives the impression that the only thing the jury did to determine if the patent is valid is to see if the code would run on other devices. It isn't, as is clear from the rest of his answer.

I'm not sure how you think this jury "made stuff up" because from his other answers, they seem to have had a much better understanding of the law and the facts than followers of this case have had.

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