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Why Women in Tech isn't enough

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11–14 of 14 posts

Re: Why Women in Tech isn't enough

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. All whites have some privilege, but it's not always the same the privilege! My Italian in-laws almost all do work that is is comically typecast but, it's often good work that has many of them self-employed (Pizza Restaurant, Hairdresser, Construction) or unionized (School Teachers, Construction)

There's something of a tension between the informal institutions (if I may call it that) of the better-off whites and the formal institutions of the less-privileged ones Rhyming, as I see it, to how laws are either binding or protective. Somewhere to start thinking about women-in-tech, to return to the topic To be more concrete, it's the formal rule changes for diversity that attracts most outrage, but the informal o…

Yeah, formal vs informal is the way to think about it.

Your identity can complicate informality (I’m not afraid of getting a person of the same gender drunk, but very afraid of the opposite) but identity politics tends to center the formal which is a rigged game where victory as most partial as the formal route preclude recourse to the informal.

The informal route is dangerous but at least you have interesting stories to tell in the end. If your co-worker feel like they are being treated unfairly at the expense of a nepo baby, for instance, the adults will likely have too much guile for it to be worth talking to them. Befriend the nepo baby, however, and you might get a huge amount of insider information about what’s going on. I was lucky to have some mentors that didn’t teach me the secrets of informality in certain tribes but rather certain principles of informal politics that my not be universal but that are widespread, such as an Asian woman sysadmin who taught me tactics for getting good customer service from unreliable vendors —- tactics, funny enough, that quit working when central IT at my Uni got more reliable but then I didn’t need them.

Re: Why Women in Tech isn't enough

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something of a tension between the informal institutions (if I may call it that) of the better-off whites and the formal institutions of the less-privileged ones Rhyming, as I see it, to how laws are either binding or protective. Somewhere to start thinking about women-in-tech, to return to the topic To be more concrete, it's the formal rule changes for diversity that attracts most outrage, but the informal o…

Yeah, formal vs informal is the way to think about it. Your identity can complicate informality (I’m not afraid of getting a person of the same gender drunk, but very afraid of the opposite) but identity politics tends to center the formal which is a rigged game where victory as most partial as the formal route preclude recourse to the informal. The informal route is dangerous but at least you have interesting storie…

[dead]

Re: Why Women in Tech isn't enough

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something of a tension between the informal institutions (if I may call it that) of the better-off whites and the formal institutions of the less-privileged ones Rhyming, as I see it, to how laws are either binding or protective. Somewhere to start thinking about women-in-tech, to return to the topic To be more concrete, it's the formal rule changes for diversity that attracts most outrage, but the informal o…

Yeah, formal vs informal is the way to think about it. Your identity can complicate informality (I’m not afraid of getting a person of the same gender drunk, but very afraid of the opposite) but identity politics tends to center the formal which is a rigged game where victory as most partial as the formal route preclude recourse to the informal. The informal route is dangerous but at least you have interesting storie…

Just thinking out loud:

-Informal rules are useful. Funny when you see the gap between "people are people" and the formal rules. Intention vs effect.

-Formal rules can also be useful (usually of the save you some thinking type, when they are). But that's overshadowed by their moral weight, their legible consequences. They are not easy to change! If we see the work that went into them, we can forgive. But not forget.

-The deliberations are mostly secret. From all sorts of distrust.

-so for formal rules: transparency (in both intention and reasoning), usefulness, & malleability are knobs to tweak. Sounds obvious, though.

Alongside negotiation skills, and less obvious, "moral identity". It's hard to hire people who are more or less aligned in those dimensions

Re: Why Women in Tech isn't enough

#14
While I sympathise with the industry problem, and generally dislike focus on gender for my very accomplished colleagues, I don't see any proposal here.

1. It claims these initiatives help in early career, but seem patronising later on. How and why this mindset shift happens in the beholders is something we can explore: is it about not focusing on gender that would be enough?

2. What are "men in leadership" to do other than having these gender-specific awards removed/renamed on top of developing intrinsic fairness in evaluating and supporting talent?

Don't get me wrong, noticing issues without a proposal is just fine! It's only opening these questions for me, as I would hate to lose that early career support (would rather extend it to more people), but wonder how we can best extend this to mid- and late-career too.

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