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The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

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Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#11

Post by floren »

trhway wrote: post #3

>The Lumina Probiotic aka BCS3-L1 is a genetically modified strain of Streptococcus Mutans that was originally billed as producing ethanol and acetoin instead of lactic acid, outcompeting the wild type upon inoculation and thus dramatically reducing incidence of caries caused by acid buildup on the teeth. i'm yet to see an alcoholic whose regular "mouth washing" by ethanol leads to good teeth (despite ethanol being v…

The idea is that the wild-type Streptococcus that already lives in your mouth produces lactic acid, which is bad for your teeth. The modified bacteria produces ethanol instead, which is neutral for your teeth. I don't believe there's any assertion that the ethanol is helpful to your teeth, just that you're going to have some bacterial colony in your mouth, so they are trying to change the byproducts of that colony to something less bad.

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#12

Post by 3eb7988a1663 »

trhway wrote: post #8
jostmey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article as I understand it, the bacteria in question directly produces formate, the suspected culprit behind the vision loss. Ethanol being produced by the bacteria is not the relevant information here

my point is about selling proposition of that probiotic - production of ethanol which i'd not expect to be long term healthy on its own merits, even without formate.

Various metabolic processes in the body already produce methanol and ethanol. Now as to the relative quantities involved, I have no idea what can be produced by bacteria in the mouth.

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#13

Post by gleenn »

Stuff like this is pretty horrifying and sad after we are deregulating the FDA as we speak so this stuff will be harder to catch and also as we are killing all the science research to help fix this poor soul's eyes after the damage was done. Sad and horrifying.

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#14

Post by jostmey »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #12
trhway wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my point is about selling proposition of that probiotic - production of ethanol which i'd not expect to be long term healthy on its own merits, even without formate.

Various metabolic processes in the body already produce methanol and ethanol. Now as to the relative quantities involved, I have no idea what can be produced by bacteria in the mouth.

Yeah, that is the big question here... how much is being produced. Also, how variable is the product from batch to batch? Could one batch be producing byproducts at much higher quantities than another batch?

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#16

Post by readthenotes1 »

gleenn wrote: post #13

Stuff like this is pretty horrifying and sad after we are deregulating the FDA as we speak so this stuff will be harder to catch and also as we are killing all the science research to help fix this poor soul's eyes after the damage was done. Sad and horrifying.

Did the FDA ever regulate stuff like this?

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#17

Post by bpodgursky »

jostmey wrote: post #15

I wonder how much variability there is in the product from batch-to-batch. Could one batch be producing unwanted by products at a much higher quantity than another batch?

It's a bacteria that's meant to colonize your mouth, the concern isn't byproducts in the initial dose, it's whether the bacteria after colonization produce harmful byproducts.

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#18

Post by 6177c40f »

Very unfortunate situation, but I'm doubtful that it's the bacteria causing it. As far as I can tell, it just doesn't produce enough formate. The body is pretty good at metabolizing formate, so it really only causes blindness from large, acute exposures, not smaller chronic exposure, AFAIK. Combine that with no other reports of blindness from other users of the Lumina probiotic, nor any similar issues appearing in rodent studies, and the bar for evidence is pretty high.

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#19

Post by palmotea »

6177c40f wrote: post #18

Very unfortunate situation, but I'm doubtful that it's the bacteria causing it. As far as I can tell, it just doesn't produce enough formate. The body is pretty good at metabolizing formate, so it really only causes blindness from large, acute exposures, not smaller chronic exposure, AFAIK. Combine that with no other reports of blindness from other users of the Lumina probiotic, nor any similar issues appearing in ro…

> nor any similar issues appearing in rodent studies

That's addressed in the OP:

> And in case you were wondering, this wouldn’t have shown up in the original BCS3-L1 rodent toxicity studies either as most non-primate animals metabolize formate much more efficiently, including rats. This has led to difficulties creating a rodent model of methanol toxicity, in fact.

Re: The Lumina Probiotic May Cause Blindness in the Same Way as Methanol

#20

Post by spoaceman7777 »

This article is entirely wild medical speculation, with a sample size of one, from someone who claims to have given away all of this Lumina product, and only using a bit of "residue". They also mention using a narcotic supplement with a history of contamination, which creates pretty good odds of other supplement and/or substance use.

The article is also from a blog that was only created 2 hours ago, and has this one post.

I'm not sure why this is all the way up the front page, but it seems very unwarranted.

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