Microsoft definitely does underpay the market significantly! Like 60% of what other companies of the same level pay, unless you're in the Copilot org. Maybe you'll get a little bit higher.
What companies do you think are at that level?
The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
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Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#12Google had the same "no layoffs" vibe too, and they paid better. Turns out that everyone is willing to do layoffs.
Still waiting for the Apple shoe to drop. Has Apple just not been as expansionist as these other companies? Or is it still coming?
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#13Google had the same "no layoffs" vibe too, and they paid better. Turns out that everyone is willing to do layoffs.
Still waiting for the Apple shoe to drop. Has Apple just not been as expansionist as these other companies? Or is it still coming?
Apple is famous for keeping a huge war chest and not reinvesting it, right?
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#14[deleted]
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#15I never took implicit “they pay less but it’s more chill” culture stories seriously. You can classify certain job functions this way more readily than company wide cultures.
Yeah, I was afraid of generalizing throughout the company. I think compared to other companies it seems to have a benefit of being more "nice". Maybe it's mostly targeted towards tech roles at that?
You thought MS was "nice"? WTF were you smoking?
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#16Google had the same "no layoffs" vibe too, and they paid better. Turns out that everyone is willing to do layoffs.
Still waiting for the Apple shoe to drop. Has Apple just not been as expansionist as these other companies? Or is it still coming?
My impression is that apple seems to have loads and loads of disposable contract workers. Does apple actually hire that much?
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#17As a manager I’m going thru performance management myself. It’s a hard experience.
What I learned is: you need to hold a high bar, because people can do anything to keep their job, and often not what you want them to do
What you want is someone who is open to feedback, understands it, and takes effective action.
Outside of that, there’s a whole gamut of people. Some get defensive. Some are politely open to feedback but don’t actually try to understand. Some understand but don’t care enough to follow thru. And some try hard but aren’t effective. All of that is bad for your team, and unlikely to change. Just need to cut your losses to open your seat for someone who can do it.
The current person i have is open to feedback, but doesn’t fully understand it and doesn’t care to. It’s like dragging a horse to water. After doing that for six months my manager pointed that out, it’s just not a good fit. I like to see the best in people, and even a little bit of improvement gives me hope. But it’s dragging down our team potential. It’s a hard truth.
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#18Google had the same "no layoffs" vibe too, and they paid better. Turns out that everyone is willing to do layoffs.
Still waiting for the Apple shoe to drop. Has Apple just not been as expansionist as these other companies? Or is it still coming?
They just didn't hire a lot like other companies. No cloud or AI bandwagon with tons of hiring and then later finding no work recently hired folks. Also work conditions were more traditional and stiff compared to pure software play companies so lot of people weren't falling over each other to get job at Apple.
Also Apple is good at lot of outsourced work for long time compared to many other companies. So they don't tons of non-core software stuff in-house. In that matter they are more like typical Fortune 500 companies than SV company.
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#19Google had the same "no layoffs" vibe too, and they paid better. Turns out that everyone is willing to do layoffs.
Still waiting for the Apple shoe to drop. Has Apple just not been as expansionist as these other companies? Or is it still coming?
Apple's headcount grew at a much slower pace during COVID/ZIRP in comparison to other FAANG/MANGA companies, so they're less likely to cut full time roles. Contractors have been cut, but there are many fewer guarantees when a contractor rather than a W-2 employee.
Re: The Broken Microsoft Pact: Layoffs and Performance Management
#20This was always a con for suckers. The only ways out are unions and employee-owned co-ops by changing the interests to ensure stability rather than merely being fooled by corporate masters who can always change the deal at any time.
Unions don’t prevent layoffs. You’re bound by a union contract which will include conditions for layoffs. Unions can prevent overwork and burn out. They cannot prevent layoffs.