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The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

bbc.com

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Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#11

Post by kragen »

This story can be summarized as "Low water activity and low pH keep honey fresh permanently." The other 14 paragraphs are just filler. Moreover, even that summary is factually incorrect; low water activity and low pH don't come close to explaining honey's astounding shelf life, which amounts to centuries in many cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Preservation in particular mentions gluconic acid and hydrogen peroxide produced by the bees' glucose oxidase, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Medical_use_and_research also mentions its content of methylglyoxal, which damages DNA and cross-links proteins somewhat like formaldehyde, thus killing microorganisms; mãnuka honey is required to contain at least 85mg/kg of methylglyoxal, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81nuka_honey. I suspect that there is a great deal more research on the topic.

It's disappointing to see such a low-quality article on the BBC website; I generally regard the BBC as a reliable source.

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#12

Post by vlovich123 »

kragen wrote: post #11

This story can be summarized as "Low water activity and low pH keep honey fresh permanently." The other 14 paragraphs are just filler. Moreover, even that summary is factually incorrect; low water activity and low pH don't come close to explaining honey's astounding shelf life, which amounts to centuries in many cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Preservation in particular mentions gluconic acid and hydrogen…

Are you sure this isn’t just the Gell-Mann effect? It sounds like you’re probably better informed about this than the typical person and might be expecting a lot more detail than a newspaper would be endeavoring to try to convey.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#13

Post by jagged-chisel »

vlovich123 wrote: post #12
kragen wrote: post #11

This story can be summarized as "Low water activity and low pH keep honey fresh permanently." The other 14 paragraphs are just filler. Moreover, even that summary is factually incorrect; low water activity and low pH don't come close to explaining honey's astounding shelf life, which amounts to centuries in many cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Preservation in particular mentions gluconic acid and hydrogen…

Are you sure this isn’t just the Gell-Mann effect? It sounds like you’re probably better informed about this than the typical person and might be expecting a lot more detail than a newspaper would be endeavoring to try to convey. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

I think the point is that the article is conveying too much of the wrong kind of details.

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#14

Post by kragen »

jagged-chisel wrote: post #13
vlovich123 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this isn’t just the Gell-Mann effect? It sounds like you’re probably better informed about this than the typical person and might be expecting a lot more detail than a newspaper would be endeavoring to try to convey. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect

I think the point is that the article is conveying too much of the wrong kind of details.

vlovich123 may be correct that I am giving the BBC too much credit in general. But I don't think I'm especially well-informed; I'd never heard of methylglyoxal before looking this up in Wikipedia.

I agree that its focus is somewhat wrong. I don't think that the backgrounder on the importance of food preservation is completely without value. It's just that it's already fairly well known that food rots and why.

My larger objection, though, is that there are important, well-established reasons for honey to be far less perishable than other substances of similar water activity and pH, and the article does not mention them even briefly. I think it's fine to have lots of the wrong kind of details, but it's not fine to omit the right ones.

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#15

Post by quibono »

dylan604 wrote: post #7
mhb wrote: post #5

Similarly, chocolate.

You can take honey that has crystalized and set it in sunlight to "melt" back into the gooey goodness, but you can't do that to chocolate that has that white powdery stuff on it.

I've often wondered about this - is sunlight really all that's needed?

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#16

Post by liquidpele »

quibono wrote: post #15
dylan604 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take honey that has crystalized and set it in sunlight to "melt" back into the gooey goodness, but you can't do that to chocolate that has that white powdery stuff on it.

I've often wondered about this - is sunlight really all that's needed?

Heat is needed, not sunlight.

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#17

Post by bdamm »

quibono wrote: post #15
dylan604 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can take honey that has crystalized and set it in sunlight to "melt" back into the gooey goodness, but you can't do that to chocolate that has that white powdery stuff on it.

I've often wondered about this - is sunlight really all that's needed?

You can zap it in the microwave for 10-15 seconds, but I always feel terribly guilty for some inexplicable reason.

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#19

Post by gerdesj »

kragen wrote: post #11

This story can be summarized as "Low water activity and low pH keep honey fresh permanently." The other 14 paragraphs are just filler. Moreover, even that summary is factually incorrect; low water activity and low pH don't come close to explaining honey's astounding shelf life, which amounts to centuries in many cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Preservation in particular mentions gluconic acid and hydrogen…

"which amounts to centuries in many cases."

Pretty sure I read about honey found in a Pharaoh's tomb - that's millennia, not centuries.

Quick search:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-science-be...

Re: The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long

#20

Post by tekla »

dylan604 wrote: post #7
mhb wrote: post #5

Similarly, chocolate.

You can take honey that has crystalized and set it in sunlight to "melt" back into the gooey goodness, but you can't do that to chocolate that has that white powdery stuff on it.

Bloom isn't spoilage.
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