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American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

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Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#11
I don't clearly see how a massive exodus of American scientists moving abroad could happen. While I understand that young scientists might find it easier to relocate, the decision becomes significantly far more complicated for couples, even when both partners are scientists. For other countries or regions to become truly competitive, they would also need to increase their investment in science significantly [1].

[1] https://www.wipo.int/web/global-innovation-index/w/blogs/202...

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#12

> Many of the most valuable scientific organizations in the world, including NOAA, NASA, the NSF, the CDC, the EPA, and the FDA, I don’t dismiss the premise of the article and I think it is a shame how these organizations are being impacted, but I don’t know that these are the best exemplars of cutting edge science being shut down that will lead to America’s downfall from its scientific perch.

I'm not sure why NIH is left off this list, since it's probably the most important scientific organization in the world. Between them NIH and NSF fund a huge proportion of the cutting edge science that is done in the US, either directly or by funding the training and early career work of researchers.

They fund a lot of the foundational work that doesn't get a lot of resources from the private sector. 99% of new drugs approved between 2010 and 2019 relied on NIH funding.

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#13

Are institutions elsewhere massively increasing funding and positions? Aren't all the non-bankruptible tuition fees providing plenty of funding already? Where's that money going? The football team?

I don't know where that money is going, but from my own experience, research at universities really isn't supported by tuition money. At least in STEM, PhD students are paid for by grants and contracts that their advisors secured from sources like NSF, DARPA, NIH, NSA, etc. Those are the people actually execute the research.

You might want to say tuition should support research, but the reality is that it doesn't.

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#14
post #11

I don't clearly see how a massive exodus of American scientists moving abroad could happen. While I understand that young scientists might find it easier to relocate, the decision becomes significantly far more complicated for couples, even when both partners are scientists. For other countries or regions to become truly competitive, they would also need to increase their investment in science significantly [1]. [1]…

China will scoop up some researchers, but likely there will just be fewer people entering the profession in the US because there will just be less funding and opportunities for graduate students, postdocs, and early career researchers.

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#16
post #11

I don't clearly see how a massive exodus of American scientists moving abroad could happen. While I understand that young scientists might find it easier to relocate, the decision becomes significantly far more complicated for couples, even when both partners are scientists. For other countries or regions to become truly competitive, they would also need to increase their investment in science significantly [1]. [1]…

Other nations are indeed taking deliberate steps to seize the reins from the US, particularly China and Europe.

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#17

Are institutions elsewhere massively increasing funding and positions? Aren't all the non-bankruptible tuition fees providing plenty of funding already? Where's that money going? The football team?

I don't know where that money is going, but from my own experience, research at universities really isn't supported by tuition money. At least in STEM, PhD students are paid for by grants and contracts that their advisors secured from sources like NSF, DARPA, NIH, NSA, etc. Those are the people actually execute the research. You might want to say tuition should support research, but the reality is that it doesn't.

Why would we want tuition to support research?

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#18

[flagged]

> How many of those were hired due to diversity programs?

This is an incredibly obnoxious and uninformed comment. NASA does not hire incompetent people because of "diversity".

> The parallel with Hitler really does not apply. The US won't be sending scientists working on nuclear weapons, stealth aircraft or profitable endeavors like GPUs.

Also an uninformed comment. The physicists that came to the US and UK and then worked on weapons programs were not for the most part working on weapons programs in Germany. They were just able to transfer those skills into the Manhattan Project, radar, or other programs.

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#19

Are institutions elsewhere massively increasing funding and positions? Aren't all the non-bankruptible tuition fees providing plenty of funding already? Where's that money going? The football team?

When grants are cancelled and people are fired, new grants and new staff do not magically appear. It's an extreme strain and an unexpected expense on these institutions, not to mention a huge disruption for the lives of the people involved.

Re: American science to soon face its largest brain drain in history

#20

> Many of the most valuable scientific organizations in the world, including NOAA, NASA, the NSF, the CDC, the EPA, and the FDA, I don’t dismiss the premise of the article and I think it is a shame how these organizations are being impacted, but I don’t know that these are the best exemplars of cutting edge science being shut down that will lead to America’s downfall from its scientific perch.

Then I have trouble believing you understand how cutting-edge research happens, because these organizations are the ones who fund it. The missing piece here is DOE Office of Science, but they're coming for that too.
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