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Men, where have you gone? Please come back

nytimes.com

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Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#11

Post by carabiner »

neuralkoi wrote: post #6

My ChatGPT meter tells me that it *feels* like this was written by AI: Notice the excessive use of the em dash throughout the article combined with the sycophantic contrasts ChatGPT loves to use so much: "It wasn’t intimacy. It wasn’t mutuality. It was access to simulation — clean, fast and frictionless." A sad state of affairs if the NYT is letting AI-slop through.

I actually totally agree and was going to post this until I saw your comment. The writing is strikingly ChatGPT style. So many commas, weird phrase lists (especially with 3 items):

> No shrinking. No waiting. No apologizing.

> slowness, curiosity, accountability

> Avoidance. Exhaustion. Disrepair.

> It wasn’t intimacy. It wasn’t mutuality. It was access to simulation.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#12

Post by liquidki »

carabiner wrote: post #11
neuralkoi wrote: post #6

My ChatGPT meter tells me that it *feels* like this was written by AI: Notice the excessive use of the em dash throughout the article combined with the sycophantic contrasts ChatGPT loves to use so much: "It wasn’t intimacy. It wasn’t mutuality. It was access to simulation — clean, fast and frictionless." A sad state of affairs if the NYT is letting AI-slop through.

I actually totally agree and was going to post this until I saw your comment. The writing is strikingly ChatGPT style. So many commas, weird phrase lists (especially with 3 items): > No shrinking. No waiting. No apologizing. > slowness, curiosity, accountability > Avoidance. Exhaustion. Disrepair. > It wasn’t intimacy. It wasn’t mutuality. It was access to simulation.

To be sure, this is also taught in writing workshops, speaking workshops, comedy and improv as well, the rule of three:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(writing)

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#13

Post by bell-cot »

3 Observations:

"It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife." (Jane Austin, 1813) Vs. modern capitalism has, for most American men, optimized away any chance of enjoying basic financial security. To paraphrase Burma Shave - don't expect them to put their chins out there, if they feel hopeless about affording the ring and the flat.

Between older-style advertising, the web, and smart phones, modern capitalism's Borg has gotten incredibly good at optimizing human behavior for its own profit. Men having quality relationships with women is not very profitable for the Borg.

It ain't just men. Over the past decade, especially during the COVID mess, many of the women I know decided to seriously cut back their social engagement - "to take better care of myself" and other phrases.

(Yes, I know the NYT's "Modern Love" series is far more poetic than analytical.)

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#14

Post by labrador »

As a father of a son, this is heartbreaking. I understand the motivation behind #metoo as outrage against predatory men. Men and women alike feel this outrage. But it's gone too far. My 39 year old single son was publicly shamed by Gen Z people around him for approaching a 22 yr old woman. Last I checked, 22 yr old women are adults who can say no if they want. It feels to me like my son has given up in this environment. He wants to get married and have kids, but it's not looking good at this point.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#15

Post by tolerance »

This is a really weird article. For one, I'm shocked that the New York Times would even publish this from an editorial perspective because it has the ChatGPT's streaks all over it.

Second. Reading a eulogy for late-stage hook-up culture written by someone old enough to be by mother is awkward.

Worst of all, and I hate be crude, but she has to romanticize, I'm so sorry, I hate to say it...getting piped and objectified. And that somehow there is a subtle nobility to this and that men—ostensibly her age and possibly younger—in spite of all the nonsense taking place in the world should chase more booty.

She'd be better off packaging her ChatGPT prompts as a Lena Dunham Agent.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#16

Post by bell-cot »

labrador wrote: post #14

As a father of a son, this is heartbreaking. I understand the motivation behind #metoo as outrage against predatory men. Men and women alike feel this outrage. But it's gone too far. My 39 year old single son was publicly shamed by Gen Z people around him for approaching a 22 yr old woman. Last I checked, 22 yr old women are adults who can say no if they want. It feels to me like my son has given up in this environme…

Yeah.

Obviously there's a huge amount of nuance in approaching another person. OTOH, I certainly know men who simply stay away from women - because "that's the best possible outcome anyway, and the least painful way of reaching it".

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#17

Post by carabiner »

liquidki wrote: post #12
carabiner wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually totally agree and was going to post this until I saw your comment. The writing is strikingly ChatGPT style. So many commas, weird phrase lists (especially with 3 items): > No shrinking. No waiting. No apologizing. > slowness, curiosity, accountability > Avoidance. Exhaustion. Disrepair. > It wasn’t intimacy. It wasn’t mutuality. It was access to simulation.

To be sure, this is also taught in writing workshops, speaking workshops, comedy and improv as well, the rule of three: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(writing)

Yes and chatgpt is incredibly heavy handed with it. This is not how most NYT articles are written.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#19

Post by bell-cot »

atlgator wrote: post #18

Did men ever enjoy the process of "connecting" on dates? Or was it a means to an end of establishing a sexual relationship? A ritual to reach the desired goal?

Many did...though perhaps only after they'd gained some maturity, and their testosterone levels had fall from the "24/7 beer goggles" level of teenagers.

Not so much anymore.

OTOH: I know a fair number of older women. From their PoV, trying to "date" in the past couple decades or so has also gone a long, long way downhill.

Re: Men, where have you gone? Please come back

#20

Post by carabiner »

atlgator wrote: post #18

Did men ever enjoy the process of "connecting" on dates? Or was it a means to an end of establishing a sexual relationship? A ritual to reach the desired goal?

Good dates are amazing and you feel like you don't want the night to end. Most on HN cannot conceive of this.
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