>> The unspoken fear of all utility managers is the “Death Spiral Scenario”. >> In this nightmare, a utility commits to build new equipment. >> However, when electric rates are raised to pay for the new plant, the rate shock moves customers to cut their kWh use. We have a "death spiral" in water prices in my local (southern California) water district. There was a drought. People were asked to conserve. People conserv…
Who's afraid of Solar PV?
11–20 of 60 posts
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#12An interesting problem is highlighted on that graph: solar seems to be peaking around mid-day, but energy demand peaks at 5 - 7 pm when solar is pretty weak. The curves showing pre- and post-solar have almost identical peaks; solar hasn't yet successfully reduced peak load. (The California energy system posts a similar graph, with a similar shape: http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx , made worse by the fact…
The peak load for South Australia was 1.8 gigawatts. There are 1,275,041 motor vehicles registered in SA.
If you could get all of them turned into electric cars plugged into the grid, it would be a 1.4 kW power drain per vehicle, which is less than the power drain of an ordinary kettle here (240V, 10A, ~2.4 kW).
The cheapest Tesla Model S has a 40kW hour battery meaning it could sustain that power drain for over 28 hours (a total of 51 GWh). It's got a 10kW charger standard, which is more than enough.
So if everyone had the cheapest Model S, kept it plugged in with the ability to send power back into the grid, and didn't mind that their car was sometimes down to 20% charge, you could power the entire grid on solar alone.
That's obviously a set of unrealistic assumptions, but it does indicate that it is feasible to solve the problem like this.
A more realistic set of assumptions:
* 1/10 cars are turned into a Model S base model equivalent
* Through financial incentives, the owners are willing to keep them plugged in
during the day and using up to 20% of the battery to push back into the grid.
* Cars need to shave 0.2 gigawatts off of peak load for four hours to bring
it in line with the rest of the day
That's 800 MWh of power to satisfy peak demand, at 200 MW.We have 127,504 vehicles, can can use up to 8kWh and 20kW each, giving:
1 GWh of capacity and 2.5 GW maximum power draw.
So it's just enough. Alternatively, 5% allowing 40% usage works, etc. The power draw is insignificant.
Owners can be heavily compensated for pushing energy back into the grid. I won't run the numbers here for length and time reasons, but knocking out peak power usage is incredibly profitable. You're literally decomissioning a large percentage of power plants. It would be feasible to make all the energy your car uses free; likely the lithium ion battery packs, too.
The question is; would 5% of the driving population buy a $50k car if they no longer had to pay for fuel or battery packs? Financially that would probably put it closer to a BMW. I think it's feasible. What about in 10 years when the cars are $20-30k? Undeniably. In 20 years when you only need 2% of the population to be in the scheme due to battery increases and the cars cost $20k? No brainer.
The system would require a smarter grid (so you can plug your car in at work and have it all taken care of), 10 years of Moore's Law for batteries, etc.
But I think the numbers check out, and it means we could go crazy with solar (the explosion in solar must continue to charge these vehicles during the day). What's needed is the will to make it happen.
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#13>> The unspoken fear of all utility managers is the “Death Spiral Scenario”. >> In this nightmare, a utility commits to build new equipment. >> However, when electric rates are raised to pay for the new plant, the rate shock moves customers to cut their kWh use. We have a "death spiral" in water prices in my local (southern California) water district. There was a drought. People were asked to conserve. People conserv…
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#14An interesting problem is highlighted on that graph: solar seems to be peaking around mid-day, but energy demand peaks at 5 - 7 pm when solar is pretty weak. The curves showing pre- and post-solar have almost identical peaks; solar hasn't yet successfully reduced peak load. (The California energy system posts a similar graph, with a similar shape: http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx , made worse by the fact…
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#15An interesting problem is highlighted on that graph: solar seems to be peaking around mid-day, but energy demand peaks at 5 - 7 pm when solar is pretty weak. The curves showing pre- and post-solar have almost identical peaks; solar hasn't yet successfully reduced peak load. (The California energy system posts a similar graph, with a similar shape: http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx , made worse by the fact…
Or just install twice the solar panels, if they're getting cheap enough. Or put them 4 time zones East (they will have to float in some cases) and send the electricity West.
The sun will be high in the sky at 5-7pm, generating power when we need it most.
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#16A shift in energy production is good news, so now we can use our coal generation capacity to desalinate water. We get new sunlight every day, but the fresh water that we have is all we have.
"We get new sunlight every day, but the fresh water that we have is all we have." Actually, we get new fresh water every other day - it's called rain.
EDIT: http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap10/continents.... (Sorry for the horrible background, the data is there)
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#17A shift in energy production is good news, so now we can use our coal generation capacity to desalinate water. We get new sunlight every day, but the fresh water that we have is all we have.
"We get new sunlight every day, but the fresh water that we have is all we have." Actually, we get new fresh water every other day - it's called rain.
Of the water present on the planet, 97% is salt water which is unusable for drinking or agriculture. Of the 3% freshwater, 68.7% is locked in glaciers. So, 1% of the water on the planet is liquid and most of that is underground. We don't really have a lot and things like fertilizers damage what we have.
It turns out that the amount of fresh water is relatively constant. If we want more in places that have less then we have to manufacture it from seawater, steal it from our neighbors by cloud-seeding, or rely on the weather cycle convert seawater into fresh water and then distribute it.
If you live in Dubai, you aren't waiting for it to rain. You're building desalination plants and processing seawater.
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#18A shift in energy production is good news, so now we can use our coal generation capacity to desalinate water. We get new sunlight every day, but the fresh water that we have is all we have.
You do realize that a significant portion of that new sunlight we get every day ends up producing new fresh water?
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#19>> The unspoken fear of all utility managers is the “Death Spiral Scenario”. >> In this nightmare, a utility commits to build new equipment. >> However, when electric rates are raised to pay for the new plant, the rate shock moves customers to cut their kWh use. We have a "death spiral" in water prices in my local (southern California) water district. There was a drought. People were asked to conserve. People conserv…
It only end ugly for the water companies. On the contrary, it ends beautifully for the customer.
Re: Who's afraid of Solar PV?
#20An interesting problem is highlighted on that graph: solar seems to be peaking around mid-day, but energy demand peaks at 5 - 7 pm when solar is pretty weak. The curves showing pre- and post-solar have almost identical peaks; solar hasn't yet successfully reduced peak load. (The California energy system posts a similar graph, with a similar shape: http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx , made worse by the fact…
We don't need any breakthroughs. Electric cars could handle the entire peak load with today's technology, the right incentives, and capital flowing in the right place. The peak load for South Australia was 1.8 gigawatts. There are 1,275,041 motor vehicles registered in SA. If you could get all of them turned into electric cars plugged into the grid, it would be a 1.4 kW power drain per vehicle, which is less than the…