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Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

nytimes.com

11–20 of 108 posts

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#11
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384590180/an-events-spac...

^ Chip in here if you are inclined to support fellow hackers. They need to raise $250,000:

  “If they can’t comply, they can’t use the building as 
  they want to,” said Anthony Ghiossi, the chief building 
  official for the city.

  Hacker Dojo opened without a permit, Mr. Ghiossi pointed 
  out. It is currently prohibited from hosting events that 
  draw more than 49 people in any one room, he said. That 
  means no large classes or overly enthusiastic happy hours, 
  which are a regular feature on Friday nights.

  Ellis Berns, the city’s assistant community development 
  director, was eager to point out that Mountain View, which 
  is home to tech giants like Google, did not wish to evict 
  Hacker Dojo. “We try to be as supportive as we can,” he 
  said. “Businesses spin out of there. We are not at all 
  interested in them closing down.”

  But retrofitting the space will cost upward of $250,000, 
  according to the Dojo’s estimate. It has so far raised 
  $173,000, including donations from its neighbor, Google.
This is as clean an example as you can get of regulations blocking innovation; a $250k fee just to get started, from the building that gave rise to Pinterest and Pebble. Compare and contrast to pg on "The Power of the Marginal":

  That's one of California's hidden advantages: the mild 
  climate means there's lots of marginal space. In cold 
  places that margin gets trimmed off. There's a sharper 
  line between outside and inside, and only projects that 
  are officially sanctioned—by organizations, or parents, or 
  wives, or at least by oneself—get proper indoor space. 
  That raises the activation energy for new ideas. You can't 
  just tinker. You have to justify.
In my opinion, in addition to donating, you should exercise your rights as a citizen and give these officials a piece of the public's mind. Their emails are below. It is very unusual for local officials like Ellis Berns and Anthony Ghiossi to actually have their bad decisions checked by bad publicity, but it's absolutely necessary in this case.

  [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/marginal.html
  [2] anthony.ghiossi@mountainview.gov
  [3] ellis.berns@mountainview.gov

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#13
post #2

Let me end this conversation before it begins: "Why should the government tell me I need this many exits, or that I need a wheelchair ramp if no-one needs it?" "Because you're too short-sighted to see how important those things are. The government is watching out for you and those unfortunate enough to know you."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4xaWMKBlw4#t=25s

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#15
post #2

Let me end this conversation before it begins: "Why should the government tell me I need this many exits, or that I need a wheelchair ramp if no-one needs it?" "Because you're too short-sighted to see how important those things are. The government is watching out for you and those unfortunate enough to know you."

It's hard not to feed a troll, so ....

1. Fire sprinklers were added to the IRC and IBC due to their ability to prevent fires (surprise!), in light of the fact that costs have come down significantly, and they can now make them look "not ugly".

Fires aren't just going to damage your building, they'll damage the stuff you don't own as well.

2. The number and placement of fire exits is usually based on the distance one has to travel from any given occupied space, and the occupancy of the building. This distance is determined based on real numbers like how far you are likely to get before smoke inhalation kills you.

Letting the probably non-existent free market sort this out by "the people who didn't die" learning to only frequent places that have sufficient fire exits seems like a bad strategy.

3. You probably don't remember the wonderful days before the ADA, when there weren't many wheelchair ramps, and people with wheelchairs were basically told to "suck it" everywhere they went (including, in some cases, government buildings).

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#16

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384590180/an-events-spac... ^ Chip in here if you are inclined to support fellow hackers. They need to raise $250,000: “If they can’t comply, they can’t use the building as they want to,” said Anthony Ghiossi, the chief building official for the city. Hacker Dojo opened without a permit, Mr. Ghiossi pointed out. It is currently prohibited from hosting events that draw more than 49…

What I'm not seeing in these articles about this place is any sense of responsibility by Hacker Dojo's owners for not doing the due diligence to know what they were getting into in the first place. I don't consider well-intentioned cluelessness a barrier to innovation but your mileage may vary.

Ellis Berns doesn't sound like a villain to me but rather just a guy in a tough situation. If the town of Mountain View doesn't enforce their codes here, and if something like the fire in the video posted here were to occur, they'd get their keesters sued out of their pants and rightly so.

That said, it's not even a drop in the bucket of Silicon Valley's vast wealth to fix this so if it's worth saving, I suspect it will be saved.

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#17
post #3

Sigh, its not an 'illegal' haven it just isn't up to code. Which, unfortunately, you cannot sign a waiver that says I won't hold anyone responsible for me burning up in a fire here. And the Mtn View is kind of well known for being unhelpful in these regards.

I tried scanning the article to find out what made it illegal, and was fairly disappointed to find that (once again) I'd been lured by a sensationalist headline.

Ugh:

"What it does not have, according to city officials, are things that would make it an office. It doesn’t have enough fire exits, sprinklers or wheelchair-accessible bathrooms, as required by city regulations."

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#18

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/384590180/an-events-spac... ^ Chip in here if you are inclined to support fellow hackers. They need to raise $250,000: “If they can’t comply, they can’t use the building as they want to,” said Anthony Ghiossi, the chief building official for the city. Hacker Dojo opened without a permit, Mr. Ghiossi pointed out. It is currently prohibited from hosting events that draw more than 49…

Can you actually make a case for your claim that the officials made bad decisions? Nothing in what you wrote explains why Hacker Dojo should be able to operate in violation of fire and safety codes that others are subject to.

Re: Silicon Valley Techies Fight to Save a Popular but Illegal Haven

#20
Sensational headlines make it sound like they are the silicon valley mafia or something. I have never seen a more BS article in NY times.

Hacker Dojo is one of the most respected hacker spaces on the planet. They try and do things as legally and 'up to code' as they can with the resources they have.

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