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The Gutting of America's Medical Research

nytimes.com

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Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#11

Post by lentoutcry »

notyourav wrote: post #5

A naive question: So much “tax payer” money is going towards research funding. But it looks like private companies are reaping rewards, mostly as a new drug. Why is this research not (mainly) privately funded?

a lot of basic research is very risky and most of the time it’s not stuff that leads to immediate development of a new drug. it’s basically acquiring knowledge with the hope that some of it might turn out to be practically useful in the future, but in the short term, it just allows us to understand stuff. but it’s not directly profitable, so private companies aren’t motivated to invest so much money in that

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#12

Post by caycep »

lentoutcry wrote: post #11
notyourav wrote: post #5

A naive question: So much “tax payer” money is going towards research funding. But it looks like private companies are reaping rewards, mostly as a new drug. Why is this research not (mainly) privately funded?

a lot of basic research is very risky and most of the time it’s not stuff that leads to immediate development of a new drug. it’s basically acquiring knowledge with the hope that some of it might turn out to be practically useful in the future, but in the short term, it just allows us to understand stuff. but it’s not directly profitable, so private companies aren’t motivated to invest so much money in that

This. And per John Maynard Keynes, it's money well spent.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#13

Post by postpawl »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #10
Spivak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hahaha, prices come down?! In this economy? That's not very pro-shareholder of you.

If that doesn't happen, then to what degree can we conclude that being a medical research country wasn't in fact the reason why our healthcare prices were so high?

There’s already a lot of studies about this

> More than half of excess U.S. health spending was associated with factors likely reflected in higher prices, including more spending on: administrative costs of insurance (~15% of the excess), administrative costs borne by providers (~15%), prescription drugs (~10%), wages for physicians (~10%) and registered nurses (~5%), and medical machinery and equipment (less than 5%). Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2...

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#14

Post by lapcat »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #6

The positive side seems to be that relinquishing our position[1] as the medical research country should lower healthcare prices. For decades we've been told that our healthcare prices were due to medical research - drug discovery, device innovation, &etc. By destroying our ability to do research, we should expect to see healthcare prices equalize at a price where those costs are no longer factored in, right? 1. By wa…

> For decades we've been told that our healthcare prices were due to medical research

That was a lie to justify insurance price gouging.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#15

Post by jmclnx »

Many people think this will hurt the old the most, but in reality, as an old person, it will hurt our children far more more than old people.

Once again we are proving the US is just "I got mine, the rest of you can suffer" Country.

Examples are research on ALS, Childhood Diabetes and Cancer and many more issues too numerous to list. Already funding has been cut for ALS and Cancer research.

Welcome to depending upon China and Japan for ground breaking treatments. From what I have read Japan has been doing a lot and I think China is ramping up quickly.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#17

Post by aeblyve »

notyourav wrote: post #5

A naive question: So much “tax payer” money is going towards research funding. But it looks like private companies are reaping rewards, mostly as a new drug. Why is this research not (mainly) privately funded?

In part because the expiry of patents puts a cap on the return on investment private research can get you.

Patents last for about 25 years, but important innovations have returns far into the future, hundreds of years. At that rate, you would very often be better off accumulating interest on capital anyways.

Notwithstanding the nature of scientific progress as an accumulation of smaller experiences (each individually harder to justify with a profit motive).

Indeed, even privately funded research is often openly published, such as the now-famous paper "attention is all you need". There's just not that much to gain from keeping every single thing under wraps. More to gain with openness.

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#18

Post by lakhim »

lentoutcry wrote: post #11
notyourav wrote: post #5

A naive question: So much “tax payer” money is going towards research funding. But it looks like private companies are reaping rewards, mostly as a new drug. Why is this research not (mainly) privately funded?

a lot of basic research is very risky and most of the time it’s not stuff that leads to immediate development of a new drug. it’s basically acquiring knowledge with the hope that some of it might turn out to be practically useful in the future, but in the short term, it just allows us to understand stuff. but it’s not directly profitable, so private companies aren’t motivated to invest so much money in that

Its also explicit policy of the US government to encourage use of the new research done: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayh%E2%80%93Dole_Act

Re: The Gutting of America's Medical Research

#20

Post by whatshisface »

notyourav wrote: post #5

A naive question: So much “tax payer” money is going towards research funding. But it looks like private companies are reaping rewards, mostly as a new drug. Why is this research not (mainly) privately funded?

It's impossible to discover a basic fact, such as "the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell," and monetize it fully within the same organization. A million scientists can take a look at that basic fact and involve it in their own research in ten million ways.

It's also not practical to keep those facts as trade secrets over the several decades over which their applications need to develop. Even if an industry consortium was willing to discover that clouds are made of water droplets, it would certainly leak before the science of meteorology had progressed far enough for that consortium to offer saleable rain forecasts.

Finally, companies are unwilling to train people about basic facts. Academia is the only system where "and then you tell everybody" is a part of the incentive structure. Privately, you have a strong incentive to reveal nothing and punish leakers.

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