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Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

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Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#11

Post by Animats »

Articles like this make one think of John Henry vs. the steam drill. John Henry beat the steam drill, once, and died. Soon, there was a better steam drill.

"Vibe coding" is only a few months old. ChatGPT was released less than three years ago. The singularity is just getting started.

History of computer chess:

- 1957 - early programs that played chess very badly. Excessive optimism

- 1967 - programs that play amateur chess

- 1976 - first tournament win

- 1980s - top programs not much stronger, but now running on PCs.

- 1996 - first win against grandmaster

- 2005 - last lose by top program against grandmaster

- 2025 - all the good programs can trounce any human.

LLMs are probably at the 1996 level now.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#12

Post by solumunus »

quantadev wrote: post #3

Experienced senior developers can spot and fix the slop instantly, while still getting a 30x productivity gain, while entry level or junior devs basically only have one "Filter" by which they determine code quality which is: "Does the code seem to work?". Unfortunately "Slop" will appear to work enough of the time to fool a Junior. Also the reason Junior devs get "slop" is because their prompts are "slop". They don't…

> getting a 30x to 50x productivity gain

That is an absurd claim.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#14

Post by tcoff91 »

quantadev wrote: post #3

Experienced senior developers can spot and fix the slop instantly, while still getting a 30x productivity gain, while entry level or junior devs basically only have one "Filter" by which they determine code quality which is: "Does the code seem to work?". Unfortunately "Slop" will appear to work enough of the time to fool a Junior. Also the reason Junior devs get "slop" is because their prompts are "slop". They don't…

30x productivity gain? gtfo of here.

Most things I try to use it for, it has so many problems with its output that at most I get a 50% productivity gain after fixing everything.

I'm already super efficient at editing text with neovim so honestly for some tasks I end up with a productivity loss.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#16

Post by tcoff91 »

solumunus wrote: post #12
quantadev wrote: post #3

Experienced senior developers can spot and fix the slop instantly, while still getting a 30x productivity gain, while entry level or junior devs basically only have one "Filter" by which they determine code quality which is: "Does the code seem to work?". Unfortunately "Slop" will appear to work enough of the time to fool a Junior. Also the reason Junior devs get "slop" is because their prompts are "slop". They don't…

> getting a 30x to 50x productivity gain That is an absurd claim.

If you get a 30x gain then you're a 0.05x developer.

a 50x gain would literally mean you could get a year's worth of work done in a week. Preposterous.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#17

Post by gwbas1c »

marcusestes wrote: post #4

Appreciate this. But. Do whatever you want. That’s an option too. Make a dumb thing, take your hands off the wheel, have fun. It’s your computer.

> Make a dumb thing, take your hands off the wheel, have fun

This is why we need licensing for software developers:

When you're building a service that has actual users, with actual data, and tangible consequences when it fails, "take your hands off the wheel, have fun" is fundamentally dangerous.

Or, to put it differently: It's totally fine for some kids to build a treehouse. They might even get hurt. But, when it comes to dams and bridges, there is a reason why the people who design those need to get a license.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#18

Post by [deleted] »

quantadev wrote: post #3

Experienced senior developers can spot and fix the slop instantly, while still getting a 30x productivity gain, while entry level or junior devs basically only have one "Filter" by which they determine code quality which is: "Does the code seem to work?". Unfortunately "Slop" will appear to work enough of the time to fool a Junior. Also the reason Junior devs get "slop" is because their prompts are "slop". They don't…

[deleted]

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#19

Post by fkyoureadthedoc »

tcoff91 wrote: post #16
solumunus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> getting a 30x to 50x productivity gain That is an absurd claim.

If you get a 30x gain then you're a 0.05x developer. a 50x gain would literally mean you could get a year's worth of work done in a week. Preposterous.

Bad/dumb developers don't get much of a boost in my experience working with a plethora of shitty contractors. Good developers aren't getting a 30x boost I don't think, but they are getting more out of the tooling than bad developers.

The bottleneck is still finding good developers, even with the current generation of AI tooling in play.

Re: Use AI code tools as collaborators, not crutches

#20

Post by valianteffort »

Very grateful to have had good self-learning, education, then mentoring before LLM's existed. And although they are such a boon to productivity I worry what they will do to my ability to think on my own long term.

Like reaching for your phone out of habit the moment you are bored, I don't want to need an LLM any time I am faced with a problem. I want to exercise my own brain. I feel as though my ability to reason without them has already began to degrade, my mind fogs more these days. I try to curb it by having conversations rather than just asking for solutions.

I don't care that the tool isn't going anywhere, but just like relying on calculators won't make you better at arithmetic, I don't think relying on LLM's will make you a better engineer.

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