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How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

blog.keen.io

11–20 of 222 posts

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#11

Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.

I was thinking the same thing. The negotiation was interesting, but 70K in the city, even with a rent subsidy from the company is tough.

Hopefully they don't have a lot of overhead beyond eating.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#12
Wait, what? Firstly: She's engaged to the founder. Secondly: This is on the company blog (which indicates she might not be 100% forthright). (And what am I supposed to learn about Keen.io, here?)

Finally (and most importantly): Did she run the numbers about what that 1.25% might realistically be worth? She compared the offer to her current position and (without the equity) there's a ~$55,000 difference. That's a shit-ton! How much of an exit would Keen.io have to have in order for that to pay off if she's on a reduced income for, say, four years? She'd have to get a couple hundred grand off of that exit. Will her share of equity get her that?

Anyway. This isn't a negotiation. And she didn't fully run the numbers.

[Edit]

I also wrote up my experience negotiating with a start-up [http://auscillate.com/post/238]. I'm pretty naive about this stuff, but at least I attempted to answer some of the issues of the value of equity.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#14
post #10
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly not that hard, especially if you live in a shared apartment. Plus if you look at his benefits, it looks like they cover some living, food, internet, and gym expenses. I grew up with friends who lived in NYC earning less than 35k a year with no such benefits. Now THAT was tough.

NYC may have been high then, but it isn't near SF now. http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/nyc-cost-of-living-is-...

Everything I've seen has shown NYC is still slightly higher than SF. Do you have any sources other than this one guy's personal experience?

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#15
post #5

Does 1.25% seem ridiculously low to anyone else? It seems to me like she should have negotiated to be a co-founder instead of employee #1.

It feels like her role is an auxiliary function, like Office Manager or QA, so I think her generic analysis works. If her role was central to the business, then I don't think she would be valuing her contribution with a one-liner like 'Employee’s value-add to the company (I used 15%, which I think is pretty low!)'. Instead the question of her value-add would be the starting/central point of the negotiation.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#16
Some great advice I got when someone comes back to you and says "We'll give you 16,000 shares" is essentially to ask "shares of what?"

One of the best questions to ask is "What percentage of the total outstanding shares does this represent?" Since 16,000 shares could be out of 100K, 1M, etc.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#17
I'm going through this right now, sorta, tho I decided I need to be paid more at the start-up I work for. I'm paying for health out of pocket so my left-column is more like $80k. I'm basically looking for a raise to market value+ to cover out of pocket health costs. In my case, I feel like the stock options exist in lieu of company-paid health insurance and a bonus.

I know a few people that cashed out at successful but sanely-priced acquisitions (nowhere near silicon valley levels), and those vested options are never more than low-to-mid 5-figures. In other words, 4-5 years worth of bonuses at a consulting firm or agency.

The reality of a profitable acquisition is slim. You're better off getting paid market rate and treating the options for what they are: just a really good perk.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#18
I think Michelle's methodology here is great, except for the fact that she applied it without a goal number; in other words, she took the offer number and tried to "reconcile" it to the model. The mechanic of running your offer through a model to justify a counteroffer is a great one that more nerds should adopt, but she's missing an input: what does she want the model to say? Your goal as a prospective employee is to maximize the number.

The offer side of this post makes my head hurt though.

    70k with .5% equity or
    60k with 1% equity or
    50k with 1.5% equity or
    40k with 2% equity
This offer says that 1% of the company is worth $20k. The company is worth $2MM. Late note: this analysis is silly, see comments below.

Later:

    Inputs:
    -        Employee’s market salary 
    (I used my current salary, plus bonuses)
    -        Salary offered by the startup 
    (I used my offer, plus benefits like rent subsidy)
    -        Company’s valuation 
    (I used $5M, the cap for Keen’s seed note)
No, it's $2MM, the CEO just told you so, right?

Frankly, an offer with a .5%->2% spread between possible equity stakes is a red flag. Those are wildly different equity grants for the exact same role.

Also:

Our expected net worth after a few years in our existing management positions was, by any practical estimation, the most financially sound outcome – and a very good one, at that. Even if things went great at Keen, with a big Series A or early profitability, we’d probably make less.

What does "a big Series A" have to do with your long term financial outcome? The A-round money goes to the company, not to your family. How many companies with "institutional" VC rounds fail? Answer: most of them.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#19

Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.

Did you miss the rent subsidy part? It was listed at $12K, so $1K/month. But lets step back from that for a moment.

$70K gross income. Lets say you put $2K into an IRA (no 401k) so $68K after that. Estimated federal tax is $10,592 [1], Another 6.2% goes to Social security so $4,340 [2], estimated state income tax (CA) is about $3,922 so rolling that up, $68K - $18,854 in taxes thats not quite $50K left over ($49,146) so that is about $4095 a month.

So if you're living on $4095 a month you're looking at spending $2K on a studio apartment [4] minus the rental subsidy of $1k making it $1k on the Apartment. Call it $500/month on food, $250 / month on subscription services (cable / phone / internet) and maybe $75 /month on rental insurance so maybe half your monthly on recurring costs. Leaving you $2K/month for dynamic costs. If you don't own a car (and I wouldn't recommend it) then you're basically able to move what is left around for things like the occasional furniture or clothing purchase. Going out to eat occasionally and saving for a rainy day. It should be possible to put away $500/month of that into savings on typical month.

The bottom line is I don't see $70K/month as 'pretty tough' :-) but I can certainly see it not giving you a luxurious lifestyle.

[1] http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estima...

[2] https://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html#Series

[3] https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2012_California_Tax_Rates_and_E...

[4] http://www.mynewplace.com/city/san-francisco-apartments-for-...

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#20

Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.

OP also mentions $12k worth of rent subsidy. Not bad, I think.

I believe there's an implicit "keep up with the Jones" factor here. Surely there are plenty of non-programmers living with less than $70k in San Francisco.

In Japanese companies, you need to get to senior level (implying at least team lead but more likely project manager) to earn $70k a year. And it's not like Tokyo is a cheap place to live. I told a Japanese coworker that in the US new grads get U$70k right out of the school and he thought that was crazy.

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