Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.
Hopefully they don't have a lot of overhead beyond eating.
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Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.
Hopefully they don't have a lot of overhead beyond eating.
Finally (and most importantly): Did she run the numbers about what that 1.25% might realistically be worth? She compared the offer to her current position and (without the equity) there's a ~$55,000 difference. That's a shit-ton! How much of an exit would Keen.io have to have in order for that to pay off if she's on a reduced income for, say, four years? She'd have to get a couple hundred grand off of that exit. Will her share of equity get her that?
Anyway. This isn't a negotiation. And she didn't fully run the numbers.
[Edit]
I also wrote up my experience negotiating with a start-up [http://auscillate.com/post/238]. I'm pretty naive about this stuff, but at least I attempted to answer some of the issues of the value of equity.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly not that hard, especially if you live in a shared apartment. Plus if you look at his benefits, it looks like they cover some living, food, internet, and gym expenses. I grew up with friends who lived in NYC earning less than 35k a year with no such benefits. Now THAT was tough.
NYC may have been high then, but it isn't near SF now. http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/nyc-cost-of-living-is-...
Does 1.25% seem ridiculously low to anyone else? It seems to me like she should have negotiated to be a co-founder instead of employee #1.
One of the best questions to ask is "What percentage of the total outstanding shares does this represent?" Since 16,000 shares could be out of 100K, 1M, etc.
I know a few people that cashed out at successful but sanely-priced acquisitions (nowhere near silicon valley levels), and those vested options are never more than low-to-mid 5-figures. In other words, 4-5 years worth of bonuses at a consulting firm or agency.
The reality of a profitable acquisition is slim. You're better off getting paid market rate and treating the options for what they are: just a really good perk.
The offer side of this post makes my head hurt though.
70k with .5% equity or
60k with 1% equity or
50k with 1.5% equity or
40k with 2% equity
This offer says that 1% of the company is worth $20k. The company is worth $2MM. Late note: this analysis is silly, see comments below.Later:
Inputs:
- Employee’s market salary
(I used my current salary, plus bonuses)
- Salary offered by the startup
(I used my offer, plus benefits like rent subsidy)
- Company’s valuation
(I used $5M, the cap for Keen’s seed note)
No, it's $2MM, the CEO just told you so, right?Frankly, an offer with a .5%->2% spread between possible equity stakes is a red flag. Those are wildly different equity grants for the exact same role.
Also:
Our expected net worth after a few years in our existing management positions was, by any practical estimation, the most financially sound outcome – and a very good one, at that. Even if things went great at Keen, with a big Series A or early profitability, we’d probably make less.
What does "a big Series A" have to do with your long term financial outcome? The A-round money goes to the company, not to your family. How many companies with "institutional" VC rounds fail? Answer: most of them.
Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.
$70K gross income. Lets say you put $2K into an IRA (no 401k) so $68K after that. Estimated federal tax is $10,592 [1], Another 6.2% goes to Social security so $4,340 [2], estimated state income tax (CA) is about $3,922 so rolling that up, $68K - $18,854 in taxes thats not quite $50K left over ($49,146) so that is about $4095 a month.
So if you're living on $4095 a month you're looking at spending $2K on a studio apartment [4] minus the rental subsidy of $1k making it $1k on the Apartment. Call it $500/month on food, $250 / month on subscription services (cable / phone / internet) and maybe $75 /month on rental insurance so maybe half your monthly on recurring costs. Leaving you $2K/month for dynamic costs. If you don't own a car (and I wouldn't recommend it) then you're basically able to move what is left around for things like the occasional furniture or clothing purchase. Going out to eat occasionally and saving for a rainy day. It should be possible to put away $500/month of that into savings on typical month.
The bottom line is I don't see $70K/month as 'pretty tough' :-) but I can certainly see it not giving you a luxurious lifestyle.
[1] http://www.calcxml.com/calculators/federal-income-tax-estima...
[2] https://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/COLA/cbb.html#Series
[3] https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/2012_California_Tax_Rates_and_E...
[4] http://www.mynewplace.com/city/san-francisco-apartments-for-...
Interesting post, though $70k to live in San Francisco? That's going to be pretty tough, honestly it's crazy expensive here.
I believe there's an implicit "keep up with the Jones" factor here. Surely there are plenty of non-programmers living with less than $70k in San Francisco.
In Japanese companies, you need to get to senior level (implying at least team lead but more likely project manager) to earn $70k a year. And it's not like Tokyo is a cheap place to live. I told a Japanese coworker that in the US new grads get U$70k right out of the school and he thought that was crazy.