Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As a programmer, get your math sorted

csprimer.in

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 21 posts

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#11

Post by zmgsabst »

bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

About the only two things I’d say are required is Boolean logic and grade school arithmetic (eg, computing the right index).

There’s certainly roles that require more — but they’re the minority and you can always be taught on-the-job if it really matters.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#12

Post by david-gpu »

modulovalue wrote: post #10

The university I went to started its math education with groups, which is really unfortunate and they never even mentioned monoids. Monoids are a key idea in computer science and I think that everyone should know what monoids are. Monoids are EVERYWHERE and once you recognize that you have a monoid you can immediately use known methods to compute over monoids in efficiently (e.g. https://static.googleusercontent.com/…

> I don't mean to offend anyone, but if you've never heard of most of that stuff, then I think that you don't deserve to call yourself a professional programmer [...] i.e. you're an amateur.

Every person is going to have a different idea of what knowledge is essential, and as you point out, we don't know what we don't know.

It is easy to look down on people who don't know what we consider fundamental, but it takes a little bit of humility to realize that we are ignorant of what other professionals value the most. Different roles require of different knowledge.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#13

Post by pseudocomposer »

bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

LLMs are also very prolific programmers that don’t actually understand any of the math underlying what they’re doing.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#14

Post by criley2 »

pseudocomposer wrote: post #13
bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

LLMs are also very prolific programmers that don’t actually understand any of the math underlying what they’re doing.

"understand" is doing a lot of work here. LLMs can explain math and solve math problems better than most programmers.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#15

Post by criley2 »

zmgsabst wrote: post #11
bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

About the only two things I’d say are required is Boolean logic and grade school arithmetic (eg, computing the right index). There’s certainly roles that require more — but they’re the minority and you can always be taught on-the-job if it really matters.

I'd say algebra is required, just because that's what introduces variables and functions. If you get into programming without knowing algebra, you'll learn algebra on Day 1 without realizing that's what you're doing.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#16

Post by bsnnkv »

pseudocomposer wrote: post #13
bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

LLMs are also very prolific programmers that don’t actually understand any of the math underlying what they’re doing.

If you were trying to say something with this comment, it communicated nothing to me

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#17

Post by zmgsabst »

criley2 wrote: post #15
zmgsabst wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About the only two things I’d say are required is Boolean logic and grade school arithmetic (eg, computing the right index). There’s certainly roles that require more — but they’re the minority and you can always be taught on-the-job if it really matters.

I'd say algebra is required, just because that's what introduces variables and functions. If you get into programming without knowing algebra, you'll learn algebra on Day 1 without realizing that's what you're doing.

Programming doesn’t require algebra[1], which is about manipulating equations.

You only need to understand processes and assignments, neither of which appear in a typical algebra class. You certainly won’t learn how to pass an algebra class about manipulating equalities by programming.

[1] — The high school kind.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#18

Post by devrandoom »

modulovalue wrote: post #10

The university I went to started its math education with groups, which is really unfortunate and they never even mentioned monoids. Monoids are a key idea in computer science and I think that everyone should know what monoids are. Monoids are EVERYWHERE and once you recognize that you have a monoid you can immediately use known methods to compute over monoids in efficiently (e.g. https://static.googleusercontent.com/…

Also, one important thing I've learnt is not to take in advice from obnoxious people.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#19

Post by threatofrain »

zmgsabst wrote: post #11
bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

About the only two things I’d say are required is Boolean logic and grade school arithmetic (eg, computing the right index). There’s certainly roles that require more — but they’re the minority and you can always be taught on-the-job if it really matters.

Those jobs won't teach math on the job.

Re: As a programmer, get your math sorted

#20

Post by sn9 »

bsnnkv wrote: post #6

> Master the mathematical foundations essential for computer science I get that this is marketing fluff, but I really don't like this sort of gatekeeping - it's what kept me from programming until I was almost 30 These days I'm quite a prolific programmer both on the clock and in my free time, and I wish I could have started earlier now that I know how little math is involved or required to build useful and beautiful…

It's unambiguously true that some amount of math beyond high school like that studied in Discrete Mathematics is essential for computer science.

That's not the same thing as being essential for programming.

That being said, studying more CS will only open more doors for you, giving you the tools to solve ever more complex problems, or the ability to recognize when something is effectively impossible.

It's not gatekeeping to point out that a field of knowledge will help you access other fields of knowledge. It's an invitation.

Post reply on HN