This article is compelling to me as someone who’s come to Girard’s ideas through criticism of Thiel. Girard’s thought has always seemed reasonable as a descriptive theory. But it’s been presented through Thiel and others as a prescriptive means for manipulation. It’s interesting to read that Girard identified the weaknesses in his own theory and, according to this author, would consider the prescriptive take an abuse of his theories.
From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
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Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#12Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#13I only read the chatgpt summarized version of this but it makes decent steelman points against thiel (as someone who likes him and his ideas).
Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#14Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#151. "A" proposed theory "X".
2. "B" interpreted "X" as "Y" and used that as a guide to action.
3. Since "X" and "Y" are different, the actions of "B" are somehow illegitimate.
If the actions of "B" are of interest, the proper focus of study is what "Y" really consists of and how it relates to the actions and outcomes of "B". What "A" did or did not propose really is of no interest unless you are specifically studying "A" instead of "B".
Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#16TFA indulges in a type of fallacious reasoning I see way too much of in philosophical discussion. The general trend of the argument goes: 1. "A" proposed theory "X". 2. "B" interpreted "X" as "Y" and used that as a guide to action. 3. Since "X" and "Y" are different, the actions of "B" are somehow illegitimate. If the actions of "B" are of interest, the proper focus of study is what "Y" really consists of and how it…
Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#17Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#18TFA indulges in a type of fallacious reasoning I see way too much of in philosophical discussion. The general trend of the argument goes: 1. "A" proposed theory "X". 2. "B" interpreted "X" as "Y" and used that as a guide to action. 3. Since "X" and "Y" are different, the actions of "B" are somehow illegitimate. If the actions of "B" are of interest, the proper focus of study is what "Y" really consists of and how it…
This is missing something essential: did B correctly or incorrectly interpret X as Y?
The argument is that if B had correctly interpreted X, and used X as a guide to action, then B's actions would have been quite different from what they are.
It would be strange to say, "Who cares about what Jesus said? We're only interested in what contemporary Christians are doing." It's strange because contemporary Christians themselves claim that they are following Jesus and care what Jesus said. If they've grossly misinterpreted Jesus, then that's a legitimate criticism of their beliefs and actions.
Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#19TFA indulges in a type of fallacious reasoning I see way too much of in philosophical discussion. The general trend of the argument goes: 1. "A" proposed theory "X". 2. "B" interpreted "X" as "Y" and used that as a guide to action. 3. Since "X" and "Y" are different, the actions of "B" are somehow illegitimate. If the actions of "B" are of interest, the proper focus of study is what "Y" really consists of and how it…
Re: From Philosophy to Power: The Misuse of René Girard by Peter Thiel, J.D. Vance
#20Sad seeing formally geeky and entrepreneurial HN being converted into political agitprop. Eternal September.
Thiel actively attributes his entrepreneurial success to Girard’s ideas. I don’t disagree it would be nice to have less explicitly political topics but the reality is that the ideas of those who historically are the discussion of HN, Silicon Valley, and tech in general are ascendant in politics. It doesn’t strike me as off topic to critically evaluate those ideas.
The result is pre-determined.