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Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

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11–20 of 158 posts

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#11

This is why laws should have sunset clauses

Sunset? So that after a few years people can do work on bridges without having to put up warnings? In a modern context, we wouldn't sunset a law saying that traffic lights be green and red, even though maybe in a few years we might want orange and pink. You dont mess around with safety warning standards.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit bemused at that "lost to time", as immediately before that it says: The law requires a bale of straw to be hung from a bridge as a warning to mariners whenever the height between the river and the bridge’s arches is reduced, as it is at Charing Cross at the moment. That seems clear enough! OK, the reason why it specifically has to be a bale of straw isn't obvious, but apart from that it seems very reasonabl…

Yeah it's amazing (in a bad sense) how those bridge too low warnings are ignored most of the time Well of course when you get stuck then it's too late.

They get ignored because there's a fudge factor built into them.

Some states (IL in particular) have absurd fudge factors, so you have 14ft spaces signed as 12.xx and 13'6" trucks drive under them all day every day like it's nothing which basically trains them to ignore the signs.

And that's before you consider all the drivers who can't read english at road speeds so anything that isn't the standardized yellow sign right on/beside the object is going to go unnoticed to them a large amount of the time.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#13
This is a good reminder of how law is actualy created and works, and the what our legal foundations are, including the laws governing our rights and responsibilitys. The real thing to understand is that all law is arbitrary, and whatever possible balance and measure is included in existing law, and discussions about change and reform are always predicated on some imagined "justice" to be had, but no matter how "just" or logical a law, someone still has to impliment and administer it, and there in lies the trap, so sticking to an ancient precident speaks volumes about the form that those laws will follow, and how to function inside that legal system. Another recent hint, was an article, here?, about ancient water pumps scattered about greater London, digging there will likely reveal that those pumps have and represent a primary right to water that can not be removed......or ignored...much like the many scattered temples and shrines in Japan where fantastic acomodations in modern building and construction have been made in order to build around, but not over, these structures that have precidence.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#14
That's the British system working as designed. If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job.

Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" -- see for example [0] or [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_v_Owens

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#15

This is why laws should have sunset clauses

Sunset? So that after a few years people can do work on bridges without having to put up warnings? In a modern context, we wouldn't sunset a law saying that traffic lights be green and red, even though maybe in a few years we might want orange and pink. You dont mess around with safety warning standards.

If the law is actually valuable and there is political capital for its continuation then surely the legislative body can vote to extend it with minimal fuss.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit bemused at that "lost to time", as immediately before that it says: The law requires a bale of straw to be hung from a bridge as a warning to mariners whenever the height between the river and the bridge’s arches is reduced, as it is at Charing Cross at the moment. That seems clear enough! OK, the reason why it specifically has to be a bale of straw isn't obvious, but apart from that it seems very reasonabl…

Yeah it's amazing (in a bad sense) how those bridge too low warnings are ignored most of the time Well of course when you get stuck then it's too late.

Similar to how people will read a temporary hand written sign on a door, but filter out a (newly placed) professionally made sign, because the latter looks too permanent.

If something has changed, using something out of place or temporary in appearance seems to be the most effective way of getting human attention... A bale of straw feels like it fits the bill.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#17

This is why laws should have sunset clauses

Sunset? So that after a few years people can do work on bridges without having to put up warnings? In a modern context, we wouldn't sunset a law saying that traffic lights be green and red, even though maybe in a few years we might want orange and pink. You dont mess around with safety warning standards.

You do not remove them. But you should change them when environment changes. Straw bale was decent indicator back in the day. But I think there should be some more modern and even global standard that law could be changed to. And this should be done with reasonable planning, schedule and communication.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#20
post #14

That's the British system working as designed. If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job. Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" -- see for example [0] or [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_v…

So, the full clause reads:

"When the headroom of an arch or span of a bridge is reduced from its usual limits but that arch or span is not closed to navigation, the person in control of the bridge must suspend from the centre of that arch or span by day a bundle of straw large enough to be conspicuous and by night a white light."

Does that mean the law is not being complied with, in this case, since the bales are hanging from adjacent bridges, not the "centre of that arch or span" itself?

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