Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 45 posts

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#11

Post by Havoc »

echelon wrote: post #2

We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. The game is afoot, and China knew to de-risk and decouple. I don't think that it can be stopped at this point. HarmonyOS, RISC-V, DeepSeek, domestic EUV, etc. China is standing up its own tech pillars. So I suppose American lawmakers see this as a game of slowing down the competition rather than fully impeding it. China…

Big part of anti trust is because it crushes healthy competition so don’t think that is necessarily incompatible with winning tech races.

> China will eventually route around every road block, so the question is whether or not any of this will help America keep an edge

I’d say the lead is so slim it’s basically already gone. At least in the practical sense. If you were to isolate both right now. Cut them both off from the outside. One would be able to produce a modern cellphone the other would not.

Any sort of residual technical lead in the pure IP/knowledge sense is good for 3 years max I reckon.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#12

Post by h4kunamata »

echelon wrote: post #2

We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. The game is afoot, and China knew to de-risk and decouple. I don't think that it can be stopped at this point. HarmonyOS, RISC-V, DeepSeek, domestic EUV, etc. China is standing up its own tech pillars. So I suppose American lawmakers see this as a game of slowing down the competition rather than fully impeding it. China…

When you prevent somebody from accessing what is out there, they release their own. The problem with that?? Well, only they mastered it since it was developed with local tech, by the time the goods are sent worldwide, you are blindfolded.

Still, I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#13

Post by Teever »

Qem wrote: post #9
Teever wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. It was known and was accounted for. The idea is to make them spend resources developing their own technology on our terms instead of their own. They were always going to do this, they just had to do it faster than they otherwise wanted to, which has an opportunity cost.

> They were always going to do this, they just had to do it faster than they otherwise wanted to, which has an opportunity cost. It will pay itself and offset those costs once they reach breakeven and start selling their equal or better tech in the international market, displacing the incumbents.

If that was the case then they would have done this work without impetus from external policy.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#14

Post by phantompeace »

h4kunamata wrote: post #12
echelon wrote: post #2

We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. The game is afoot, and China knew to de-risk and decouple. I don't think that it can be stopped at this point. HarmonyOS, RISC-V, DeepSeek, domestic EUV, etc. China is standing up its own tech pillars. So I suppose American lawmakers see this as a game of slowing down the competition rather than fully impeding it. China…

When you prevent somebody from accessing what is out there, they release their own. The problem with that?? Well, only they mastered it since it was developed with local tech, by the time the goods are sent worldwide, you are blindfolded. Still, I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#15

Post by notyourwork »

snvzz wrote: post #10

With this, China is ahead. HarmonyOS is a modern (post-Liedtke) microkernel, multi-server OS. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is stuck with the likes of Linux (monolithic), Windows NT (ugly hybrid) and MacOS (pre-liedtke Mach, hybrid, ugly). Good technology exists (e.g. seL4, genode, RISC-V) but we seem to be stuck investing into bad tech.

Without disagreeing, can you tell me what makes this a game changer? How would I apply this in my personal life or at work?

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#16

Post by echelon »

Teever wrote: post #8
echelon wrote: post #2

We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. The game is afoot, and China knew to de-risk and decouple. I don't think that it can be stopped at this point. HarmonyOS, RISC-V, DeepSeek, domestic EUV, etc. China is standing up its own tech pillars. So I suppose American lawmakers see this as a game of slowing down the competition rather than fully impeding it. China…

> We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. It was known and was accounted for. The idea is to make them spend resources developing their own technology on our terms instead of their own. They were always going to do this, they just had to do it faster than they otherwise wanted to, which has an opportunity cost.

> opportunity cost

What was the opportunity cost in this equation? A substantially smaller bailout for their commercial real estate market?

> [The idea is to make them spend resources developing their own technology] on our terms (emphasis added)

What terms did we dictate? Timelines? Trade?

How does America or the West emerge ahead here?

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#17

Post by zamadatix »

Teever wrote: post #13
Qem wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were always going to do this, they just had to do it faster than they otherwise wanted to, which has an opportunity cost. It will pay itself and offset those costs once they reach breakeven and start selling their equal or better tech in the international market, displacing the incumbents.

If that was the case then they would have done this work without impetus from external policy.

Not necessarily. That would imply competing with the multinational incumbents during the first trillion dollars of investment is just as easy and profitable as having the market cleared out for you because the US placed tech export bans, caps, or pricing pressures to parts of the world market (not just China alone).

Of course this doesn't automatically mean China wouldn't eventually pull ahead without the external pressure either. I'm just not as convinced it was so clearly a forced opportunity cost loss as much as something which provided a washed mix of both friction and acceleration despite assuredly preventing the US from making more money while its tech was farther ahead.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#18

Post by chvid »

notyourwork wrote: post #15
snvzz wrote: post #10

With this, China is ahead. HarmonyOS is a modern (post-Liedtke) microkernel, multi-server OS. Meanwhile, the rest of the world is stuck with the likes of Linux (monolithic), Windows NT (ugly hybrid) and MacOS (pre-liedtke Mach, hybrid, ugly). Good technology exists (e.g. seL4, genode, RISC-V) but we seem to be stuck investing into bad tech.

Without disagreeing, can you tell me what makes this a game changer? How would I apply this in my personal life or at work?

Modern microkernels deliver stability, security, performance (look it up if you want the details). Back when I did CS we were talking about this as the next big thing in operating systems. It didn't happen - common operating systems instead expanded in scope, started to include things like a web browser and supporting a gazallion pieces of hardware, rather than trying to "do things right".

The game changer part is of course in terms of the broader tech war. What we have here might be a consumer operating system that is technologically better than what is on offer from Apple, Google, and Microsoft. Built by a vilified Chinese company.

Re: Huawei launches first laptops using home-grown HarmonyOS

#20

Post by supermatt »

h4kunamata wrote: post #12
echelon wrote: post #2

We should have known that if we limited China from accessing our tech, they'd just grow their own. The game is afoot, and China knew to de-risk and decouple. I don't think that it can be stopped at this point. HarmonyOS, RISC-V, DeepSeek, domestic EUV, etc. China is standing up its own tech pillars. So I suppose American lawmakers see this as a game of slowing down the competition rather than fully impeding it. China…

When you prevent somebody from accessing what is out there, they release their own. The problem with that?? Well, only they mastered it since it was developed with local tech, by the time the goods are sent worldwide, you are blindfolded. Still, I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you.

> I would never buy a Chinese tech device, you are buying a surveillance system to allow its government to spy on you.

There is no public evidence that Chinese consumer tech has ever been used to spy for the Chinese government. None. Meanwhile, the USA has been caught running mass surveillance programmes like PRISM and tapping the phones of its own allies. That is confirmed. And yet it is the USA making the most noise, spreading fear about Chinese tech. People only seem to worry when the device doesn’t have a US brand on it. You can be a patriot, but don’t be naïve. Believing unproven claims while ignoring confirmed facts is not critical thinking.

Post reply on HN