Live data from Hacker News

How scrolling becomes a religious act

etymology.substack.com

11–20 of 62 posts

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#11

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> he doesn’t argue, he argued,

This phrase is so common it's practically correct. Search for "Plato argues" online for example.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#12
post #7

> Participating in group trends is fun—and essential to being human. It’s just important to remember exactly what we’re doing, and how our need for belonging can be manipulated by bad actors. Only then can we retain our individuality and understanding of what’s happening. Ah; this looks relevant to a topic I met through Kegan's model of adult development. Apparently around 66% [0] of the population doesn't think in a…

I’m sure this has been studied somewhere, but I bet the prevalence of individualism tracks with the proximity of a frontier to a civilization. Most of the really hyper individualist culture seems to come from frontier-type societies that need self-reliance to survive.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#13

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas

Well, yes, and as a religious person, I would suggest that the metaphor is more accurate than you think.

To the pagans, a god is a supernatural force that demands worship, sacrifice, attention, effort, appeasement. To a Christian, a false idol is something that steals from the worship and sacrifice that is due to the One True God.

You can spot a modern American pagan by the deference and attention they give to their false idols. What sort of priority is ceded to our devices that detracts from truly transcendent and holy things in life? When I approach my church I've developed a ritual for taming and shutting down my phone -- yes, a ritual to put it in its place! But most days, the devices and the Internet are taking charge and telling us what we want and what we can do with ourselves.

False worship and pagan gods are slavery and bondage for us. The liberation from Egypt is a parable for today. If we cannot break free from our devices and scrolling the Internet, then Pharaoh will take away the straw and make us forage for ourselves. Our labors and the pains of bondage will increase.

Perhaps irreligious people are sensitive and defensive when others suggest that they may indeed be religious worshippers of false idols. This is an ancient phenomenon that, it is felt by the irreligious, belongs to the realm of anthropology and archaeology. Religious worship of a graven image -- it can't possibly be something done by a guy on his phone on the street corner! But it is. I assure you, it is real.

It is possible to engage the modern world without being trapped in this pagan worship, but it is not necessarily easy.

“The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist” — Charles Baudelaire

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#14

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> he doesn’t argue, he argued, This phrase is so common it's practically correct. Search for "Plato argues" online for example.

Yes you’re right and I hesitated putting that in there, but in the article itself, it’s written in such a way that I found confusing. Especially when the rest of the text doesn’t seem very familiar with the sociology / philosophy of religion.

Probably an unnecessary quibble to have, and I shouldn’t have included it.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#15
post #7

> Participating in group trends is fun—and essential to being human. It’s just important to remember exactly what we’re doing, and how our need for belonging can be manipulated by bad actors. Only then can we retain our individuality and understanding of what’s happening. Ah; this looks relevant to a topic I met through Kegan's model of adult development. Apparently around 66% [0] of the population doesn't think in a…

How does what you linked support what you said at all? What you're quoting doesn't exist in that PDF.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#16
post #8

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

You are trying to fight how people use words and you won’t be successful. Phrases like “religious fervor” and “religiously ” etc. are in common usage and refer to things outside of religion. Phones are worshipped in the sense that many people are lost or will panic if they had to do without them for an extended period of time. Using worshipped evokes an image that is apt.

The meaning of words is central to the meaning of the article. If the meaning of religion is devolved to “very interested in” then the meaning of the article is “people are very interested in their phones” which is a quite boring article.

You can’t rely on the gravity of the word religious while also disregarding it.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#17
post #7

> Participating in group trends is fun—and essential to being human. It’s just important to remember exactly what we’re doing, and how our need for belonging can be manipulated by bad actors. Only then can we retain our individuality and understanding of what’s happening. Ah; this looks relevant to a topic I met through Kegan's model of adult development. Apparently around 66% [0] of the population doesn't think in a…

How does what you linked support what you said at all? What you're quoting doesn't exist in that PDF.

It is where I got the 66% from - the exact quote to look for is "Socialized mind (58% of the adult population)", add in the 6% Imperial and then round from 64 to 66 because that is much easier to remember.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he doesn’t argue, he argued, This phrase is so common it's practically correct. Search for "Plato argues" online for example.

Yes you’re right and I hesitated putting that in there, but in the article itself, it’s written in such a way that I found confusing. Especially when the rest of the text doesn’t seem very familiar with the sociology / philosophy of religion. Probably an unnecessary quibble to have, and I shouldn’t have included it.

I believe it's short for "(in his written works) X argues...". Past tense would indicate that there was a change in his views at some point.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#19

I really dislike these posts that are clearly written by someone unfamiliar with religion as a topic, and just use “worship” or “religion” as synonyms for “being obsessed with something to an irrational degree.” That isn’t an accurate description of the concept of religion, nor is it a synonym of irrational. Religion is probably one of the most complex yet misunderstood areas of study today. Phones are no more worshi…

> being obsessed with something to an irrational degree

This phrase, nor the key words "obsessed" or "irrational", does not appear in the text.

> Being distracted by your phone doesn’t come with an entire metaphysical picture about the nature of life and death, proper social roles, or most of the other things religious systems typically come with.

I would argue that, for most people under 40 and quite a lot of people over, if they have questions about those things, they're going to mediate them through the phone. Whether that's from philosophy youtubers, social media, or asking chatgpt.

Phone use doesn't feel very spiritual, but what do people do on social media? Moralizing. Preaching. Dogma.

Consider the history of "random+interpretation" fortune telling methods, like Tarot and I Ching. For the sorts of questions you might have asked your fortune, people are now asking LLMs. And treating the answer with the same kind of authoritiveness.

The section about "algorithm" reminds me of Carl Sagan's phrase "the demon-haunted world". Algorithmic social media is extremely important, but it's not understandable by the public (because the workings are confidential!). So superstition creeps in. This is where things like "unalive" come from: people are avoiding saying "death" or related words because "the algorithm" will bring them bad luck (bans or shadow bans).

Another word to bring in: idol. And idolatry.

Re: How scrolling becomes a religious act

#20

Anthropic is releasing blog articles where they are discovering how Claude works through experiments and observations. It seems more like science than engineering when even the creators have to run scientific experiments to figure out how what they engineered works. https://www.anthropic.com/research/tracing-thoughts-language...

Isn't that more an artifact of the nature of the indeterministic black boxes that llm's are?

anthropic is doing great work, that understanding models blog post was really ground breaking.

Post reply on HN