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Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

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Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#11

Post by globalnode »

pentaphobe wrote: post #3
nottorp wrote: post #2

Let's add a post scriptum: Whatever you're working on, your project is not likely to be at Google's scale and very unlikely to be a "complex system".

Let's add a post post scriptum :) Just because your project might not be at Google's scale doesn't mean it is therefore also not complex [^1] Example: I'd say plenty of games fit the author's definition of "complex systems". Even the well-engineered ones (and even some which could fit on a floppy disc) [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Speaking of games, why hasn't google made a game. They could create a gaming division and well... make one. Amazon did. I wonder why they haven't.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#12

Post by dijit »

dmoy wrote: post #5

> My immediate reaction in my head was: "This is impossible". But then, a teammate said: "But we're Google, we should be able to manage it!". Google, where the impossible stuff is reduced to merely hard, and the easy stuff is raised to hard.

This is probably the most accurate statement possible.

“I just want to store 5TiB somewhere”

“Ha! Did you book multiple bigtable cells”

https://youtu.be/3t6L-FlfeaI?si=C5PJcrvLepABZsVF

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#13

Post by gilleain »

Mostly overlapping definition of what a 'complex system' is with :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_system

although I understood the key part of a system being complex (as opposed to complicated) is having a large number of types of interaction. So a system with a large number of parts is not enough, those parts have to interact in a number of different ways for the system to exhibit emergent effects.

Something like that. I remember reading a lot of books about this kind of thing a while ago :)

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#14

Post by sdenton4 »

globalnode wrote: post #11
pentaphobe wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's add a post post scriptum :) Just because your project might not be at Google's scale doesn't mean it is therefore also not complex [^1] Example: I'd say plenty of games fit the author's definition of "complex systems". Even the well-engineered ones (and even some which could fit on a floppy disc) [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent

Speaking of games, why hasn't google made a game. They could create a gaming division and well... make one. Amazon did. I wonder why they haven't.

/me pours one out for Stadia

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#15

Post by nasretdinov »

nottorp wrote: post #2

Let's add a post scriptum: Whatever you're working on, your project is not likely to be at Google's scale and very unlikely to be a "complex system".

IMO even a more interesting observation is that even Google itself doesn't necessarily work on large scale, e.g. many regionalised services in Google Cloud don't have _that_ many requests in each region, allowing for a much simpler architecture compared to behemoths like GMail or Maps

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#16

Post by Phelinofist »

dijit wrote: post #12
dmoy wrote: post #5

> My immediate reaction in my head was: "This is impossible". But then, a teammate said: "But we're Google, we should be able to manage it!". Google, where the impossible stuff is reduced to merely hard, and the easy stuff is raised to hard.

This is probably the most accurate statement possible. “I just want to store 5TiB somewhere” “Ha! Did you book multiple bigtable cells” https://youtu.be/3t6L-FlfeaI?si=C5PJcrvLepABZsVF

What are peer-bonuses?

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#17

Post by dijit »

Phelinofist wrote: post #16
dijit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the most accurate statement possible. “I just want to store 5TiB somewhere” “Ha! Did you book multiple bigtable cells” https://youtu.be/3t6L-FlfeaI?si=C5PJcrvLepABZsVF

What are peer-bonuses?

The idea is if someone helps you in a really big way that you’re able to reward that. So you can ask the company to give the person either credits for an internal store, or a direct addition to their salary for one month.

Obviously, there are limits to how many pay bonuses you can give out and if it’s direct money or store credits.

Directly asking for a peer bonus’ is not very “googly” (and yes, this is a term they use- in case you needed evidence of Google being a bit cultish).

There are companies who help do this “as a service”; https://bonusly.com/

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#18

Post by ggm »

I think there are two myths applicable here. Probably more.

One myth is that complex systems are inherently bad. Armed forces are incredibly complex. That's why it can take 10 or more rear echelon staff to support one fighting soldier. Supply chain logistics and materiel is complex. Middle ages wars stopped when gunpowder supplies ran out.

Another myth is that simple systems are always better and remain simple. They can be, yes. After all, DNA exists. But some beautiful things demand complexity built up from simple things. We still don't entirely understand how DNA and environment combine. Much is hidden in this simple system.

I do believe one programming language might be a rational simplification. If you exclude all the DSL which people implement to tune it.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#19

Post by teivah »

dijit wrote: post #17
Phelinofist wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are peer-bonuses?

The idea is if someone helps you in a really big way that you’re able to reward that. So you can ask the company to give the person either credits for an internal store, or a direct addition to their salary for one month. Obviously, there are limits to how many pay bonuses you can give out and if it’s direct money or store credits. Directly asking for a peer bonus’ is not very “googly” (and yes, this is a term they u…

I wasn't aware of bonuses-as-a-service. Thanks for sharing.
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