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Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

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Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#11

Post by poink »

_heimdall wrote: post #3

It seems reasonable enough that the government may have built a forked version of signal with message archiving that meets documentation requirements. If its an app they wanted kept under wraps, it will make the while Hegseth situation seem a lot more benign. I use Molly Messenger on a secondary phone that doesn't have a SIM, its a fork of Signal with a few differences related to encryption at rest. It still works wi…

It's not only reasonable the US government should be archiving communications between officials, it should be compulsory. We've already had problems with this re: agents of government agencies like CBP and big bankers using E2EE messaging apps to skirt regulatory requirements.

That said, whether this makes the situation better or worse depends on who can actually see these archives. "Smarsh" is a US-based company, but they acquired TeleMessage, which was (is?) based in Israel.

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#12

Post by ceejayoz »

firesteelrain wrote: post #9
_heimdall wrote: post #3

It seems reasonable enough that the government may have built a forked version of signal with message archiving that meets documentation requirements. If its an app they wanted kept under wraps, it will make the while Hegseth situation seem a lot more benign. I use Molly Messenger on a secondary phone that doesn't have a SIM, its a fork of Signal with a few differences related to encryption at rest. It still works wi…

6 days ago there was the Hegseth article regarding this being hotly debated in here and it’s a great example of not having all the facts before jumping to conclusions. Part of the debate was regarding archiving of messages which now apparently there is a way to archive Signal messages automatically. Huh who would have figured

Great motivated thinking, but wrong.

It would appear they're using this app now, post-incident, because they got in trouble. (And having messages with Vance, Gabbard, etc. be visible to the press pool camera is... not a great look for the guy who accidentally added a reporter.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/15/us/politics/cia-director-...

> All of the messages from a leaked group chat have been deleted from the phone of John Ratcliffe, the C.I.A. director, the agency said in a court filing.

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#13

Post by esafak »

What is the point of using Signal if you are going to let a (foreign) company intercept your communications? I guess they wanted the UX of a commercial product instead of whatever clunky app that's approved for government. Does anyone know what the alternative was?

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#14

Post by cge »

As some details:

TeleMessage is/was an Israeli company [1], but was acquired last year by Smarsh [2], itself a subsidiary of K1 Investment Management, both US companies. It me whether the company moved. While not necessarily related at all, their terms of service also seem to explain specific arrangements for messaging in China that appear to involve disclosures to the Chinese government.

It's unclear to me how the app works. It appears to be advertised as a fork of the Signal client which uploads all content to a remote server, thus, of course, breaking the E2E encryption, unless the archive is considered an end and the connection to it is secure. It also appears to be advertised as being the same interface as Signal.

However, both the iOS and Android Signal clients are AGPLv3. I can't find any indication that the TeleMessage clients are anything other than proprietary. So are they going the route of giving the software and source only to paying customers under AGPLv3 (with those customers then free to distribute it)? Did they completely reimplement the client? Or are they an illegal proprietary fork?

The first option seems unlikely, and the latter two seem rather ominous for the security of the app.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeleMessage [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smarsh

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#16

Post by tptacek »

cge wrote: post #14

As some details: TeleMessage is/was an Israeli company [1], but was acquired last year by Smarsh [2], itself a subsidiary of K1 Investment Management, both US companies. It me whether the company moved. While not necessarily related at all, their terms of service also seem to explain specific arrangements for messaging in China that appear to involve disclosures to the Chinese government. It's unclear to me how the a…

Smarsh is apparently a big deal in the compliance space. They're not randos. That doesn't take away the hilarity of using a Signal clone that defeats the whole purpose of Signal, though.

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#17

Post by JumpCrisscross »

“On Thursday Reuters published a photograph of Waltz checking his mobile phone during a cabinet meeting held by Donald Trump. The screen appears to show messages from various top level government officials, including JD Vance, Tulsi Gabbard, and Marco Rubio.”

Head of NatSec, ladies and gentlemen. Once the domain of Kissinger, Brzezinski, Powell and Rice. Now with the opsec of a brain-damaged cocaine dealer.

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#18

Post by obitsten »

cge wrote: post #14

As some details: TeleMessage is/was an Israeli company [1], but was acquired last year by Smarsh [2], itself a subsidiary of K1 Investment Management, both US companies. It me whether the company moved. While not necessarily related at all, their terms of service also seem to explain specific arrangements for messaging in China that appear to involve disclosures to the Chinese government. It's unclear to me how the a…

[dead]

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#19

Post by fluidcruft »

cge wrote: post #14

As some details: TeleMessage is/was an Israeli company [1], but was acquired last year by Smarsh [2], itself a subsidiary of K1 Investment Management, both US companies. It me whether the company moved. While not necessarily related at all, their terms of service also seem to explain specific arrangements for messaging in China that appear to involve disclosures to the Chinese government. It's unclear to me how the a…

Just wondering... if you work for a company and your employer provides you with modified GPL software, it's not considered distributed to you in ways that GPL would apply (so you are not free to further distribute it). At least that's how GPLv2 used to be explained as as business friendly--"private" modifications remain private and employees are not considered exterbal distribution. I'm not familiar with AGPL though.

Re: Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive Signal Messages

#20

Post by sorcerer-mar »

esafak wrote: post #13

What is the point of using Signal if you are going to let a (foreign) company intercept your communications? I guess they wanted the UX of a commercial product instead of whatever clunky app that's approved for government. Does anyone know what the alternative was?

It makes a lot more sense if you don't assume from the start these people have one iota of intellectual horsepower.

Signal is approved for government uses, just not non-public DOD information. They're supposed to use Signal for something like "hey, get to a SCIF so we can discuss details," then they discuss the details in a secure environment.

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