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Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#11

Post by wmf »

crazygringo wrote: post #9

I'm curious why Apple has let it get this far that court cases are underway and WaPo is writing an article about it. What's in it for Apple? Surely it's easy enough to define some kind of verification process based on various pieces -- phone number, credit card, purchase receipt, etc. -- and requiring a police report to be filed or something. And this isn't like Google or Facebook where accounts are free, preventing…

If Apple can unlock the account from your stolen iPhone they can also unlock your account for the gestapo. Whether it's worth throwing normal people under the bus to protect a few dissidents is a matter of values on which people are going to have differing opinions of course.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#12

Post by Henchman21 »

crazygringo wrote: post #9

I'm curious why Apple has let it get this far that court cases are underway and WaPo is writing an article about it. What's in it for Apple? Surely it's easy enough to define some kind of verification process based on various pieces -- phone number, credit card, purchase receipt, etc. -- and requiring a police report to be filed or something. And this isn't like Google or Facebook where accounts are free, preventing…

[flagged]

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#13

Post by Forgeties79 »

wmf wrote: post #11
crazygringo wrote: post #9

I'm curious why Apple has let it get this far that court cases are underway and WaPo is writing an article about it. What's in it for Apple? Surely it's easy enough to define some kind of verification process based on various pieces -- phone number, credit card, purchase receipt, etc. -- and requiring a police report to be filed or something. And this isn't like Google or Facebook where accounts are free, preventing…

If Apple can unlock the account from your stolen iPhone they can also unlock your account for the gestapo. Whether it's worth throwing normal people under the bus to protect a few dissidents is a matter of values on which people are going to have differing opinions of course.

>to protect a few dissidents

Your opinion seems to be to trivialize how important this can be, which fine you do you, but I think saying it only protects "a few dissidents" is a bit ridiculous.

Every protest I've filmed at I hit the lock button 5 times so it forces a passcode. I feel secure knowing the police can't just take it and start scrolling - they need a warrant or they're bust.

You don't have to be a dissident to need your privacy.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#14

Post by tacker2000 »

Why should Apple open this can of worms and give users access to locked out data. How would this process even work on a larger scale?

In the end if you dont backup your data locally, then its not your data and you risk losing it.

If your business shuts down because you lost your phone its your own fault for not mitigating this type of risk enough.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#15

Post by crazygringo »

wmf wrote: post #11
crazygringo wrote: post #9

I'm curious why Apple has let it get this far that court cases are underway and WaPo is writing an article about it. What's in it for Apple? Surely it's easy enough to define some kind of verification process based on various pieces -- phone number, credit card, purchase receipt, etc. -- and requiring a police report to be filed or something. And this isn't like Google or Facebook where accounts are free, preventing…

If Apple can unlock the account from your stolen iPhone they can also unlock your account for the gestapo. Whether it's worth throwing normal people under the bus to protect a few dissidents is a matter of values on which people are going to have differing opinions of course.

That doesn't make sense. This isn't a technical hurdle, is it? Apple already can unlock your account "for the gestapo" if they choose to.

If the users have enabled Advanced Data Protection and don't have another Apple device, then I can understand why it would be lost for good. But that doesn't seem to be the case in these lawsuits. They make it clear that Apple has access to the data, and could transfer/restore it if they wanted to.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#16

Post by wmf »

Hizonner wrote: post #7
throwaway48476 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A security model that the user does not understand and contains traps is not a good security model.

OK, but what model would you suggest? Apple has no adequate way to actually verify who anybody is without (a) forcing them to physically visit one of a small number of offices (it can't be every store), and (b) probably charging a significant fee to cover the cost of doing real verification. And even that demands assuming that the identifying information on the account is right.

The person in the article who has their whole professional life in a stolen Apple account would probably be happy to visit Apple HQ in person.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#17

Post by throwaway48476 »

Hizonner wrote: post #7
throwaway48476 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A security model that the user does not understand and contains traps is not a good security model.

OK, but what model would you suggest? Apple has no adequate way to actually verify who anybody is without (a) forcing them to physically visit one of a small number of offices (it can't be every store), and (b) probably charging a significant fee to cover the cost of doing real verification. And even that demands assuming that the identifying information on the account is right.

For account recovery in store verification is viable. They're already collected data on their customers via payment processors.

I would also force users to watch a video explaining the security features and quiz them before turning them on. You can't expect users to immediately understand how the security model works.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#18

Post by newsclues »

Hizonner wrote: post #7
throwaway48476 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A security model that the user does not understand and contains traps is not a good security model.

OK, but what model would you suggest? Apple has no adequate way to actually verify who anybody is without (a) forcing them to physically visit one of a small number of offices (it can't be every store), and (b) probably charging a significant fee to cover the cost of doing real verification. And even that demands assuming that the identifying information on the account is right.

Digital identity is an essential aspect of modern life.

The fact that the government doesn’t have a great standard for identity and it’s left to banks and tech companies is crazy.

Re: Thieves took their iPhones. Apple won't give their digital lives back

#19

Post by throwaway48476 »

bell-cot wrote: post #5
mmmlinux wrote: post #4

This sounds a lot like "I forgot my ultimate recovery password, but its someone else's fault."

Yes. But in general, the way that most humans "naturally expect" such things to work is simply incompatible with the usually -extremely-convenient nature of computer accounts and cloud services.

Then it is too convenient.
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