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What Ouya Isn't

games.hazzens.com

11–20 of 50 posts

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#11
post #4

You make it sound like developers need to develop specifically for OUYA, many Android games can be very easily ported to the OUYA platform. By using Android OUYA is also tapping the giant pool of existing Android and Java software engineering talent. They are attempting to bridge the gap between smart phone games and console games. No, its probably not the future of set top entertainment but for $99 I would take an O…

> You make it sound like developers need to develop specifically for OUYA, many Android games can be very easily ported to the OUYA platform.

This has been soundly disproven by anyone who's used XNA to try to port between the 360 and WP7. Most non-trivial games need to be significantly re-thought to be comfortable on both touch and controller-based systems. The interfaces are so hilariously divergent that, no, it's not a simple port at all.

At least, if you care about good games. (Many XBLIG developers don't either. That's a ghetto too, like I expect OUYA to be.)

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#12
post #9

I hope it can be a tegra 4 console with a discrete gpu, something like geforce 660.

I'm as guilty as posting before thinking as the next guy, but this is really silly. We already know what's inside it: a Tegra 3 (probably a T33) using its on-die graphics hardware.

Making it sillier is the idea of bolting in a GeForce 660--I assume you want to pay $500 for the console just for the privilege of an underpowered CPU strapped to a GeForce 660?

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#13
Initially I was excited for Ouya. Not because I was ever going to own one (console/tv gaming sucks for my lifestyle) but because it would mean there would be better games on Android.

Except now I'm not so sure.

Making a game work on a touchscreen 30cm from your face is a completely different proposition from making a game on a controller 4m in front of your face. It's nice that the underlying OS is the same, but it's not that nice.

It's not a case of just adding controller support-- your entire game changes. Fruit Ninja works on touchscreens, it doesn't work on controller. Street Fighter works on controllers, it doesn't work on touch screens. And FPS works well on neither (go go mouse + keyboard).

It's not just the controller either: playing games on a couch in your living room has different motivations to playing a game on a smartphone. Shallow 'toilet games' make sense on smartphones, they do not make sense on consoles. Deep 1hr+ strategy games, or games with consistent network access etc, make sense on consoles, they don't make sense on phones.

So I think one of two things will happen: games will either heavily target one platform or the other, and have either no support or horrible crippled support for other control schemes and mechanics, or games will genericise to the point where your controls and 'motive' is less important.

I'm not a big fan of either result.

Note: Console vs. PC is a good case study. They've had years to get this right, and there are still lots of horrible console ports. I'm not talking about bugs or graphic quality here either, but stuff like the controls on PC being awful, the UI being targeted toward consoles (Play Skyrim of Oblivion to see what I mean), hilarious console-focused messages about not turning off my computer while the game is saving, etc. If Bethesda can't spend the money getting two UIs right I can't imagine an indie dev being able to.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#14
> Ouya is a lot of promises and fluffy ideals in an industry that doesn't give two shits about them. An open machine plugged into my TV sounds cool, but what would I use it for that one of the myriad non-open options doesn't already do?

Not very friendly sounding, but this last paragraph is the very crux of the matter. If it's as open as we hope it will be, then there could be a huge number of things that it does that non-open options don't do.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#15
There is a case to be made that mindshare and user culture matters more to long-term success than the actual product, assuming the product meets a minimum threshold of quality. (See: the Mac user-base from around 1995-2005).

If the OUYA succeeds, which admittedly looks like a long shot for all the reasons described here and elsewhere, it will be due to capturing hearts and minds of devs and power users for the years it will take to gestate into a profitable platform, and not because it's the best value prop for either users or devs on day 1.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#16
post #13

Initially I was excited for Ouya. Not because I was ever going to own one (console/tv gaming sucks for my lifestyle) but because it would mean there would be better games on Android. Except now I'm not so sure. Making a game work on a touchscreen 30cm from your face is a completely different proposition from making a game on a controller 4m in front of your face. It's nice that the underlying OS is the same, but it's…

"And FPS works well on neither (go go mouse + keyboard)."

Crazy sales and millions of console FPS players would disagree. I think playing an FPS on a controller is "normal" and just fine as of the current generation of consoles. Of course there will be edge cases, too (quake 3, CS, etc.).

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#17

The key he is missing is Android. The huge big advantage of the OUYA is that it leverages the Android ecosystem. As a game developer myself, we were already developing OUYA ready games before the OUYA existed. Many (most?) games in the Play Store right now are already ready for the OUYA (gamepad support, freemium, 10 feet experience) or close to it. Which are a great good practice for developers to be following on An…

Author here. I've updated my post to include some words on the current Android games market and how none of it maps to the Ouya. Simply, a game written for a 4.5" diagonal phone screen will not scale down to the 2-3" diagonal touchpad on the controller and then back up to the 52" diagonal of a TV. You have lost too much fidelity in the process; the game will feel wrong if it even works at all.

As for Android being the future of gaming - I don't believe it. Why might a motley collection of devices with disparate specs upend a highly focused and adaptable juggernaut, besides it making a great story? This won't kill the current gaming juggernauts anymore than streaming content killed television ones.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#18
post #13

Initially I was excited for Ouya. Not because I was ever going to own one (console/tv gaming sucks for my lifestyle) but because it would mean there would be better games on Android. Except now I'm not so sure. Making a game work on a touchscreen 30cm from your face is a completely different proposition from making a game on a controller 4m in front of your face. It's nice that the underlying OS is the same, but it's…

"And FPS works well on neither (go go mouse + keyboard)." Crazy sales and millions of console FPS players would disagree. I think playing an FPS on a controller is "normal" and just fine as of the current generation of consoles. Of course there will be edge cases, too (quake 3, CS, etc.).

Yeah, I considered leaving that example out ;-)

So FPS games have changed dramatically to work on consoles. They are often third person, and it gives you a better sense of space on a display so far away. They have become 'slower' and the fighting has become mostly horizontal and far less vertical, because controllers just aren't as good as a mouse in terms of aiming. The games tend to have lots of 'shooting' gallery style situations since it's harder to both move and shoot. The whole chest-high wall thing is another by-product, as is auto-aim.

I'm not saying you can't play FPS: you definitely can, but a mouse fits better. I find console FPS / TPS games are easier on PC because the mouse aiming is just so much easier.

I can't think of a way of phrasing this in a way that doesn't sound like "my dad could beat up your dad", so I'll simply say it and hope for the best: I'd wager than an average FPS player on a mouse + keyboard would be 'better' than a good FPS player using a controller, due simply to mouse superiority.

(I haven't played a console FPS in a couple of years though, perhaps things have changed)

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#19
I like the post overall, but the tech analysis is really weak. It makes it look like you spent a few minutes reading specs on wikipedia and decided that was enough to compare and contrast the hardware. It's not, and that comparison doesn't really add anything to the post.

To properly compare the processors you need to note that they are using different instruction sets and that the 360's processors are in-order with hyperthreading. Are the ouya's cpu cores in-order or out of order? do they have hyperthreading? What's the memory latency like? How big are the caches?

To properly compare the GPUs you need to understand the major differences in architecture. The 360 didn't have '512MB of memory and 10MB of video memory'; it had 512MB of memory that was shared between CPU and GPU (which means extremely cheap direct access to memory used by the GPU - something with no analog in modern PC architectures) and then 10MB of extremely, extremely high-speed framebuffer EDRAM on the GPU. These two unusual design decisions meant that overdraw was nearly free on the 360 (because the framebuffer memory was so fast) and that you could use the GPU to help out with CPU computations or have the CPU help out with rendering because both could freely access each other's memory. The Ouya could have double the clock speed and memory of the 360 and still fail to run 360 games if it has no equivalent for those features, because if you have a GPU/CPU memory split, you can end up needing two copies (system memory and GPU memory) of data, and it becomes much more difficult to have the GPU and CPU assist each other.

Someone who's done development for the 360 with the native dev kit could probably provide more detail here, I've only used the XNA dev tools (so GPU access, but no native CPU access) - IIRC there are some other perks the 360 has like a custom vector instruction set that might also give it an advantage over similarly-clocked competitors.

Re: What Ouya Isn't

#20
post #6

On one side I want it to succeed (the liberal hobbyist in me), on the other side I see some problems (the conservative console game developer in me) I don't see how AAA title would be delivered to this device. And without AAA titles, the device can't be primarily about games. What used to fit in CD-ROM in PSX days, then on DVD in PS2/Xbox, now it needs bigger and more storage. With the recent download limits from int…

Why is a device without AAA games necessarily a device that isn't primarily about games?

I'm genuinely curious about this. From my perspective, the Ouya seems to perfectly match my gaming habits (I have not played a "AAA" title in many years), so I have to wonder what about the economics of the situation make the Ouya fundamentally untenable.

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