I can buy these arguments for airplanes. I'm more intrigued by the throwaway tweet claiming "electric scooter companies can never be profitable", because I don't see why this should be the case, unless "scooter" here is referring specifically to Ola style light motorcycles that compete directly with ICE equivalents, and not Lime style electric kick scooters that don't?
Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
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Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#12lithium is most definitly profitable in thousands of applications including boats, and light aircraft, now. The intercontinental heavy aircraft, and marine segment is not there yet, but there is a lot of progress bieng made every day, and every single major player in the transpotation sector is watching closely, as the chance of a disruptive battery technology de-stealthing is significant
Aircraft getting lighter as they burn off fuel is a feature. Lithium energy storage doesn’t get lighter as it discharges, meaning the aircraft doesn’t get more efficient as stored energy decreases and the landing weights/speeds are higher than a comparable fossil fueled aircraft.
I’m more hopeful that synthetic jet fuel will be a practical solution than batteries for long-range flight.
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#13I recently read The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, and one of the ideas in it that I thought was very good was replacing our cargo ships with wind-powered ships, basically giant sailing ships. In the book, they were incredibly slow, with shipments taking months to complete, but if supply lines were set up correctly, that wouldn't matter for a lot of cargo. Cargo ships are a massive CO2 contributor,…
Why can't cargo ships deploy floating solar panels to power the ship motors?
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we'll see the global rich (western middle class) continue to fly well past the onset of the famines and refugee waves. Without a single family detached house and a regular vacation flight most "middle class" people would have no idea why to get up in the morning. Our whole culture is built around lauding and striving toward that pattern as the good life. It will have to be taken from them, they will not give…
> It will have to be taken from them Be careful when advocating force towards others. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, after all.
They may not have been alluding to violence; perhaps something like democracy itself would be enough to take that lifestyle away from the middle class. If billionaires consolidate enough power & resources and push the tax burden onto the middle class which makes yearly vacations unaffordable
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#15Only got to the subhead so far but mention of "energy return on investment" suggests this is going to be bullshit.
edit: after reading, it was worse than I expected.
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#16Flight is a luxury of the current times that will likely not last another 100 years except for the very rich.
How dare you stand in the way of regular people burning hundreds of kilograms of fossil fuel in order to spend a couple days at the beach? /s
When Elon and Taylor give up their jets, I will too.
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#17I recently read The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, and one of the ideas in it that I thought was very good was replacing our cargo ships with wind-powered ships, basically giant sailing ships. In the book, they were incredibly slow, with shipments taking months to complete, but if supply lines were set up correctly, that wouldn't matter for a lot of cargo. Cargo ships are a massive CO2 contributor,…
Currently, ships need human sailors. They perform maintenance aboard ship as well as have legal oversight of the craft. We are not yet able to replace the crew with automation.
It's difficult to find skilled crewmembers willing to sign up to extremely long rotations away from home.
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we'll see the global rich (western middle class) continue to fly well past the onset of the famines and refugee waves. Without a single family detached house and a regular vacation flight most "middle class" people would have no idea why to get up in the morning. Our whole culture is built around lauding and striving toward that pattern as the good life. It will have to be taken from them, they will not give…
> It will have to be taken from them Be careful when advocating force towards others. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, after all.
Ah yes. George Washington, Simon Bolivar, Vladmir Lenin, etc... famously incompetent.
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#19I recently read The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, and one of the ideas in it that I thought was very good was replacing our cargo ships with wind-powered ships, basically giant sailing ships. In the book, they were incredibly slow, with shipments taking months to complete, but if supply lines were set up correctly, that wouldn't matter for a lot of cargo. Cargo ships are a massive CO2 contributor,…
Why can't cargo ships deploy floating solar panels to power the ship motors?
Because floating solar panels add drag proportional to their area, and it takes a lot of area of panels to power a motor that is sufficient for a cargo ship even without the added drag of the panels. Also, because oceans and the things one runs into in them aren't easy on solar panels being dragged along by cargo ships.
Re: Electric Propulsion's Dirty Secret: Why Lithium Can't Fly (Or Float) Profitably
#20I recently read The Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson, and one of the ideas in it that I thought was very good was replacing our cargo ships with wind-powered ships, basically giant sailing ships. In the book, they were incredibly slow, with shipments taking months to complete, but if supply lines were set up correctly, that wouldn't matter for a lot of cargo. Cargo ships are a massive CO2 contributor,…
Why can't cargo ships deploy floating solar panels to power the ship motors?
Economics.
The solar panels would be more expensive than bunker fuel.
Sails would be cheaper.