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Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

terriblesoftware.org

11–20 of 68 posts

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#11
post #5

I think this article confuses an absence of "heated arguments" with a lack of constructive, critical discussions. I've found that in mature teams with high trust, people don't have heated arguments precisely because they are not afraid that their voices will be ignored. There is no need to become heated because you trust that the other people on the team will hear you out and consider your viewpoint. >code that nobod…

> this article confuses an absence of "heated arguments" with a lack of constructive, critical discussions. Doesn't the article refute exactly this point of view? In " The hidden cost of “nice” teams " section: " Those teams weren’t actually harmonious—they were conflict-avoidant. The disagreements still existed; they just went underground. "

>Those teams weren’t actually harmonious—they were conflict-avoidant.

In my experience, this is not true because, in high-trust teams, there is "harmonious conflict." People offer criticism without getting heated.

Getting heated often results from a strong opinion combined with a lack of faith that other people are genuinely considering your opinion. People who get heated feel they have to be forceful to convince others to listen. Knowing your opinion will be hard and carefully considered, you don't need to get heated.

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#13
> Ideas get challenged based on what they are, not who said them

Is anyone here deeply moved by how this argument is insightful and bring an angle to team building that wouldn't have been obvious otherwise ?

It's not just that single quote, the whole article felt like a Don Quixote battling the windmills that keep silencing the wise engineers bearing their valid criticism as a spear. Or perhaps it was aimed at dictator types of figures who reign fear on their troups ? But then, will they even listen to this author ?

> My best engineering teams were never the quiet ones—they were the ones where technical debates got spirited, where different perspectives were welcomed, and where we could disagree while still respecting each other.

Who's raising their fist shouting that respectful disagreement with different perspectives has no place in their team ?

--

The previous piece discussed here [1] was definitely more interesting and bringing more to the table as a thought piece.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43652024

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#14
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this article confuses an absence of "heated arguments" with a lack of constructive, critical discussions. Doesn't the article refute exactly this point of view? In " The hidden cost of “nice” teams " section: " Those teams weren’t actually harmonious—they were conflict-avoidant. The disagreements still existed; they just went underground. "

>Those teams weren’t actually harmonious—they were conflict-avoidant. In my experience, this is not true because, in high-trust teams, there is "harmonious conflict." People offer criticism without getting heated. Getting heated often results from a strong opinion combined with a lack of faith that other people are genuinely considering your opinion. People who get heated feel they have to be forceful to convince oth…

I find the heated discussions happen in teams where things actually matter. If arguments never get heated, its because everyone knows it doesn't matter in the first place and you can just get by with silently nodding.

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#15
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those teams weren’t actually harmonious—they were conflict-avoidant. In my experience, this is not true because, in high-trust teams, there is "harmonious conflict." People offer criticism without getting heated. Getting heated often results from a strong opinion combined with a lack of faith that other people are genuinely considering your opinion. People who get heated feel they have to be forceful to convince oth…

I find the heated discussions happen in teams where things actually matter. If arguments never get heated, its because everyone knows it doesn't matter in the first place and you can just get by with silently nodding.

The only two options you mention are "getting heated" and "silently nodding." Healthy teams exist between these two extremes.

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the heated discussions happen in teams where things actually matter. If arguments never get heated, its because everyone knows it doesn't matter in the first place and you can just get by with silently nodding.

The only two options you mention are "getting heated" and "silently nodding." Healthy teams exist between these two extremes.

Maybe, but if you're never getting heated, the work doesn't matter in the first place.

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#18

I ran a pretty high-functioning team of experienced C++ image processing pipeline programmers, for 25 years. We were part of a much larger, international (and interdisciplinary) team. We worked for one of the most renowned imaging companies in the world. Some of the folks we dealt with, were the top people in their field, and not everyone was especially good at getting along with others. Everyone thought they had The…

25 years is a long time, I'm intrigued. Looking back, can you single out any specific rules, workflows or cultural reasons which made this possible? Also, how much fluctuation in team members did you experience?

I'm currently managing multiple teams, some of which are experiencing challenges with clashes between top talent. I'm sure there is no magical bullet, but still very interested in anecdotal data on this.

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#19
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only two options you mention are "getting heated" and "silently nodding." Healthy teams exist between these two extremes.

Maybe, but if you're never getting heated, the work doesn't matter in the first place.

I genuinely don't know how to respond to that. The idea of connecting anger to the relevancy of one's work seems so strange to me.

Re: Why Your 'Harmonious' Team Is Failing

#20
Once I was in a team that had built for themselves a bubble of happiness, because the CTO / second founder of the company was a toxic scumbag. At the time I thought it was the best team ever but the bubble was cracked in a very ugly way, revealing the horrific situation.
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