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The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

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Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#11

Post by viraptor »

N2yhWNXQN3k9 wrote: post #5
zeristor wrote: post #2

Strangely I’ve found myself to be something like 400% more productive when pair programming. I’ve not heard anyone mention this aspect of paired programming for people with ADHD, although as a colleague once mentioned I jump from one thing to another, but in the end I’ve done the loop.

There is very little evidence for this. IMO, it is feel good advice that sounds right. Try background noise of any sort, until you find a fit. I can't pay attention to anything anymore without noise. A little rumble in thy ears does wonders. I severely question anecdotes that pair programming does anything other than motivate you to not look like a moron wasting time in front of someone else (in the context of ADHD -…

> I severely question anecdotes that pair programming does anything other than motivate you to not look like a moron wasting time in front of someone else

So... you're basically saying it works? Because that's what it does in practice. The other person is the external motivator for keeping attention on the task.

> you might be surprised how much worse it gets later in life, especially if you have been taking them since youth

Got any support for that? (Not being dismissive; never heard of that beyond the usual "effectiveness goes down over time")

> If you doubt this, there is very little mention of body doubling in literature outside of blogs:

Yup, there's still little in terms of specific research, but if you look at the papers about externalising motivation/triggers... it's close to a specific implementation of those ideas rather than a separate thing.

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#12

Post by nico »

bitwize wrote: post #8
zeristor wrote: post #2

Strangely I’ve found myself to be something like 400% more productive when pair programming. I’ve not heard anyone mention this aspect of paired programming for people with ADHD, although as a colleague once mentioned I jump from one thing to another, but in the end I’ve done the loop.

Pair programming flummoxes me because I find it significantly harder to concentrate when someone's watching. It's like having that execrable old Visual Basic feature where it flags up syntax errors if you cursor off a line, forcing you to correct the errors before moving to a different line. Except now implemented with a smelly human flagging up the errors! I get it. XP, and Agile in general, is all about relying les…

My personal experience with pair programming is that I first was very intimidated by it and instinctively hated it

Then, it slowly creeped up at work, and I noticed that initially, most people seemed uncomfortable with it. But, if we were able to build trust and get to a place where we weren't judging each other, just trying to make progress with the task, then things would magically flow and we could solve things that each person individually had been stuck on

We then mostly kept it to a weekly activity, in which we could tackle either specific tickets from a certain list that no-one was actively working on, or on specific things that someone would bring up and needed help with

I believe it's probably not the way to work every single moment, but it is definitely a very powerful and useful tool

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#13

Post by wavemode »

N2yhWNXQN3k9 wrote: post #5
zeristor wrote: post #2

Strangely I’ve found myself to be something like 400% more productive when pair programming. I’ve not heard anyone mention this aspect of paired programming for people with ADHD, although as a colleague once mentioned I jump from one thing to another, but in the end I’ve done the loop.

There is very little evidence for this. IMO, it is feel good advice that sounds right. Try background noise of any sort, until you find a fit. I can't pay attention to anything anymore without noise. A little rumble in thy ears does wonders. I severely question anecdotes that pair programming does anything other than motivate you to not look like a moron wasting time in front of someone else (in the context of ADHD -…

What is at all strange about wanting to work near other people so you keep each other motivated to remain focused? It's not magic, and it's not a treatment for ADHD (nor a replacement for such). It's just a common sense response to living in an age where everyone works from home isolated. Some people just work better with company.

> If you doubt this, there is very little mention of body doubling in literature outside of blogs

Wow, I sure better stop doing everything in my life that there isn't literature on.

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#14

Post by MasterBel2 »

BrianHenryIE wrote: post #7

Yep, my sister makes fun of me that her mere presence makes me more productive. (when I shared an apartment with her in my early thirties) she'd sit in my room just chatting to me and I would tidy and clean without her doing anything, whereas I'd been meaning to do that for months. I suggested the idea of a responsiblabuddy website today to my wife – if we're both in the same town I'd commit to coming to your house o…

try “responsibilibuddy” :)

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#15

Post by N2yhWNXQN3k9 »

viraptor wrote: post #11
N2yhWNXQN3k9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is very little evidence for this. IMO, it is feel good advice that sounds right. Try background noise of any sort, until you find a fit. I can't pay attention to anything anymore without noise. A little rumble in thy ears does wonders. I severely question anecdotes that pair programming does anything other than motivate you to not look like a moron wasting time in front of someone else (in the context of ADHD -…

> I severely question anecdotes that pair programming does anything other than motivate you to not look like a moron wasting time in front of someone else So... you're basically saying it works? Because that's what it does in practice. The other person is the external motivator for keeping attention on the task. > you might be surprised how much worse it gets later in life, especially if you have been taking them sin…

> So... you're basically saying it works?

Working under pressure isn't a viable therapy, IMO. In my experience, it is a path to burn out and diminishing returns.

> Got any support for that?

Anecdotally, ~25 years of eating them, but there is plenty of evidence that prolonged use of amphetamine causes structural neuronal changes, even at therapeutic doses.

Here is one article: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38665308/

> you look at the papers about externalising motivation/triggers

What papers? What do they say?

Also, fear (an external motivator) is a great way to release catecholamines for positive outcomes in ADHD, but it is also a great way to increase general stress, which has many other outcomes (free cortisol changes, etc).

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#16

Post by N2yhWNXQN3k9 »

wavemode wrote: post #13
N2yhWNXQN3k9 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is very little evidence for this. IMO, it is feel good advice that sounds right. Try background noise of any sort, until you find a fit. I can't pay attention to anything anymore without noise. A little rumble in thy ears does wonders. I severely question anecdotes that pair programming does anything other than motivate you to not look like a moron wasting time in front of someone else (in the context of ADHD -…

What is at all strange about wanting to work near other people so you keep each other motivated to remain focused? It's not magic, and it's not a treatment for ADHD (nor a replacement for such). It's just a common sense response to living in an age where everyone works from home isolated. Some people just work better with company. > If you doubt this, there is very little mention of body doubling in literature outsid…

Yeah, I mean, saying stuff like this is polarizing.

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#17

Post by mrmincent »

I wfh pretty much 100%, and have inattentive adhd. I’ll occasionally go spend a day at a WeWork, either with other workmates, or by myself.

On days that I’m with workmates, I get nothing done. On days I’m by myself, sitting by strangers, I’m really productive. I can just lock in and chug through my work. It never made sense to me until I learned about body-doubling, kind of feels like what I was inadvertently doing on those solo days.

Re: The ADHD body double: A unique tool for getting things done

#18

Post by ravetcofx »

lemming wrote: post #6

An online application of this principle is Focusmate, where you schedule calls with essentially random strangers and just work together. There's very little chit chat and it's not some weird front for a hookup scheme. I've been amazed at how well it works for me. I can't really explain why, after all the other person can't see my screen so I could just be doom scrolling YouTube the whole time, but for some reason I d…

There are free discord groups for this too
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