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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#11
I've negotiated hundreds of salaries for developers and tech people.

The key to negotiating is to get to a deal that both parties feel happy with - if you “win” a negotiation through power then you will likely find later you lost when you get paid back for winning through strength.

Here is what I know about negotiating:

1: know in advance the salary that you want

2: aim for a salary that is not at the high end, not at the low end

3: your target salary should be one that you will feel satisfied with if you get the job - you do not want to get the job and then be unhappy and feeling like you undersold yourself an looking over your shoulder for the next job.

4: it is a good idea to ask for a salary range - typically $5K to $10K. you can say "I'm looking for $150K to $160K but it depends on what the role is" - this gives you some room to negotiate and helps avoid overpricing yourself.

5: if you feel that your salary target is fair, then stick to that - when the time comes that they ask you how much you want - state what you want and explain why you think it is fair.

6: if you get negotiated down, explain again that you think your target number is fair and explain why. explain that given that the number is a fair market rate then you're not moving down.

7: be willing to accept that you do not get the job as an outcome of asking for a fair salary - at that point shrug and move on.

8: if you are the start of your career then money should not matter at all - find a job that will allow you to hone your craft and learn key skills - this is the attitude you should have for your first five years. After that, you will be able to negotiate on the strength of your skills and experience.

Remember negotiation of salary should not be about a win/lose attitude - if either party feels that someone won and someone lost, then that will be a bad start to the relationship. Negotiating salary is about finding a salary that both employer and employee feel happy at.

If you are an employer, remember that every dollar you pay ABOVE the requested salary buys you good will and enthusiasm. Every dollar you offer BELOW the requested salary does the inverse. Also avoid the "If you do well we will pay you more in 3 months" - just pay straight up front that amount.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#13
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Dated 2016. I think the 2025 rules will be different, for most US tech job-seekers.

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

The information landscape has changed a bit - several large states now require posting clear salary bands, which many companies comply with in good faith. Some like Netflix post something useless (eg: "The range for this role is $100,000 - $720,000").

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#14

Lots of good gems > And yet, when people talk about the labor market, they think “oh, a company wants to give me a job! What a relief!” As though having a job were in itself some special privilege for which a company is the gatekeeper. > > Dispel yourself of this mindset. > > A job is just a deal. It is a deal between you and a company to exchange labor for money (and other things you value). > > Negotiating is a nat…

One of the greatest gems I got from a blog post once posted back in HN (I can't find it anymore, unfortunately) was about a guy getting a job at Google (or ex-Googler), and he dropped the following (I'm paraphrasing, of course):

  > Treat yourself as a business and every job offer as a business deal. Every job offer is a deal, a business deal that must remain carefully balanced win-win. If you let it slip, by getting too much work and not the required promotion or salary bump, it will become a win-lose deal (you on the losing end).
It was a short post, but that piece of advice has been with me for more than 10 years now.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#15
Very old advice (2016). Definitely very good in that period of time though. I suppose it’s relevant today for some job posts.

But thanks to transparency in pay regulations from states such as Colorado. Pay is advertised up front.

You know what you are worth. Find jobs/companies that fit that ideal number. Then pop off in interview(s).

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#16
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

The information landscape has changed a bit - several large states now require posting clear salary bands, which many companies comply with in good faith. Some like Netflix post something useless (eg: "The range for this role is $100,000 - $720,000").

That isn’t useless, the $100k bottom number provides a lot of information to labor sellers.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#17

I've negotiated hundreds of salaries for developers and tech people. The key to negotiating is to get to a deal that both parties feel happy with - if you “win” a negotiation through power then you will likely find later you lost when you get paid back for winning through strength. Here is what I know about negotiating: 1: know in advance the salary that you want 2: aim for a salary that is not at the high end, not a…

> if you “win” a negotiation through power then you will likely find later you lost when you get paid back for winning through strength.

Could you please provide an example of said scenario?

> if either party feels that someone won and someone lost, then that will be a bad start to the relationship. Negotiating salary is about finding a salary that both employer and employee feel happy at.

Yes, I second this. It once happened to me that I "won" by getting an over-budgeted salary, but had to quit 3 days later because one of the bosses leaked in a meeting that they intended to overwork me since they felt hustled by me during the salary negotiation.

Said and done, they assigned me more work than initially scoped, as to adjust the "bang for the buck" balance (and had to quit shortly after that).

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#18
post #4
post #2

Dated 2016. I think the 2025 rules will be different, for most US tech job-seekers.

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

Sorry, that was a confusing choice of term by me, when the article already used the term "rule". I mean the courtship dynamics.

When it's a buyer's market -- or the buyers think it is -- some of the candidate tactics are going to play differently.

Even the old advice that, once the company decides they want you, that changes the dynamics, and now opens up negotiation. The dynamics maybe don't change as much as they used to. If candidate A doesn't take the offer, B, C, D, etc., are lined up and waiting, and probably not going anywhere.

I suspect that a lot of techbros who only know/remember the sellers market of a few years ago are going to be hit by the pendulum swing, when a lot of employers will be similarly cocky and fickle.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#19

Lots of good gems > And yet, when people talk about the labor market, they think “oh, a company wants to give me a job! What a relief!” As though having a job were in itself some special privilege for which a company is the gatekeeper. > > Dispel yourself of this mindset. > > A job is just a deal. It is a deal between you and a company to exchange labor for money (and other things you value). > > Negotiating is a nat…

> Companies generally respect candidates who negotiate

Is this really the case? If a company is giving you an offer, presumably they want to hire you. At that point, does the recruiter, your hiring manager, your skip level, the CTO, the CEO even care at that point? Does this respect ever come into play in future performance reviews? I personally don’t think so, but I’ve only ever worked for larger companies.

I’ve always thought you should negotiate because you’re potentially leaving money on the table, since companies will often try to lowball your offer.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#20

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

Right, I've received one job offer in the last decade. One. Took me a year and a half of searching to get it. Don't skip the degree or get older. ;-)
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