The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024 • Hacker News Board

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#11

Post by jampekka » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:05 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance

The Democrats have a radical pro-gun stance compared to about any other country in the world.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#12

Post by legitster » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:06 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance

They did drop the anti-gun stance and nobody cared or believed them. Kamala was on stage during the debate telling the crowd that she and her running mate were both proud gun owners. Meanwhile Trump is fairly anti-gun.

This kind of illustrates the problem. Even if their party radically changes its stance on key issues, everyone is so locked into an ideological bubble that nobody bothers to update their perceptions.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#13

Post by jampekka » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:16 PM UTC

techpineapple wrote: post #2

I think there's a weird counter to this that people are in denial about the Democrats denial. Democrats have always been unpopular. Americans are conservative. I think people voted for Trump because Trump was able to convince them that Politics is easy, that strong men can fix everything, and Americans won't be convinced as easily to vote for Democrats. Trump will probably screw a bunch of stuff, and maybe Democrats…

Trump is unpopular. He's never gotten majority approval in a Gallup poll for example.

https://news.gallup.com/interactives/507569/presidential-job...

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#14

Post by OneDeuxTriSeiGo » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:20 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 3. Stop focusing so much on identity politics. Yes, sure, continue to stand for equality and inclusiveness. But don't make gender politics, trans-politics, race-politics, etc. your lynchpin issues.

Democrats didn't run on identity politics. Republicans ran on claiming that Democrats run on identity politics. Democrats aren't the ones spending millions of dollars on campaign ads about trans people or people of color. That's republicans.

That's the problem. No matter how hard democrats try to avoid even mentioning race or gender outside of "treat people respectfully", they are known as the party of "identity politics" solely because Republicans have spent the last two campaign cycles selling their opposition as the identity politics party.

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance and embrace the 2nd Amendment as being just as important as every other part of the Bill of Rights.

Agreed. But I would reframe it as becoming the party of "gun safety" and "safe gun ownership". Respect the 2A and acknowledge there's no way to stop proliferation without punishing the people who actually need guns and reframe the conversation around education, risk mitigation, and safety.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#15

Post by techpineapple » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:21 PM UTC

jampekka wrote: post #13

techpineapple wrote: post #2

I think there's a weird counter to this that people are in denial about the Democrats denial. Democrats have always been unpopular. Americans are conservative. I think people voted for Trump because Trump was able to convince them that Politics is easy, that strong men can fix everything, and Americans won't be convinced as easily to vote for Democrats. Trump will probably screw a bunch of stuff, and maybe Democrats…

Trump is unpopular. He's never gotten majority approval in a Gallup poll for example. https://news.gallup.com/interactives/507569/presidential-job...

He is, and I get this, but I think there's something wrong with the data, something like, MAGA is popular, and even though he's an imperfect steward of MAGA, he's the only valid steward of MAGA. Or, he's unpopular, but he's unpopular with people who will always vote Republican, and popular with people who will only vote Trump, pushing Republican's over the top.

But how do you explain Trump being unpopular, and like sports stars doing the Trump dance?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/19/sport/trump-dance-sports-spt-...

Or how do you explain that Republicans underperform when Trump is not on the ballot? Or how do you explain that Trump absolutely annihilated his competition in the primary! This feels like a perfect example of Bezos' "When the data and the anecdotes disagree, believe the anecdotes"

Trump won the only poll that matters. Destroyed by most metrics. Who cares what the polls say about him being unpopular?

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#16

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:31 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #12

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance They did drop the anti-gun stance and nobody cared or believed them. Kamala was on stage during the debate telling the crowd that she and her running mate were both proud gun owners. Meanwhile Trump is fairly anti-gun. This kind of illustrates the problem. Even if their party radically changes its stance on key issues, everyone is so locked into an ideological bubble that nobody…

The only way to win when facts don't matter is to lie to the electorate and appeal to their emotions. And why not? What recourse will they have once you're elected?

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#17

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:36 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #12

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance They did drop the anti-gun stance and nobody cared or believed them. Kamala was on stage during the debate telling the crowd that she and her running mate were both proud gun owners. Meanwhile Trump is fairly anti-gun. This kind of illustrates the problem. Even if their party radically changes its stance on key issues, everyone is so locked into an ideological bubble that nobody…

Voters have no reason to believe their embrace of firearms ownership was sincere. The Democrats have been consistently attempting to introduce more restrictive gun regulations for decades. Maybe if the Democrats added an official party plank pledging not to introduce any more firearms legislation and worked with Republicans to repeal some of the more stupid ones introduced by Democrats, it might be believable.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#18

Post by mindcrime » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:43 PM UTC

jampekka wrote: post #11

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance The Democrats have a radical pro-gun stance compared to about any other country in the world.

Be that as it may, when it comes to winning elections in the United States, comparisons to the Rest of the World aren't carrying much weight.

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#19

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:43 PM UTC

jampekka wrote: post #11

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance The Democrats have a radical pro-gun stance compared to about any other country in the world.

[deleted]

Re: The Democrats Are in Denial About 2024

#20

Post by mindcrime » Mon, Mar 31, 2025, 6:44 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #12

mindcrime wrote: post #5

I'm very much not a Democrat or a Republican, and in many ways I don't give a shit what the Democrats do. But in the vein of "competition is good" and believing that a moderately heathy Democratic party is valuable as a counterweight to oppose the GOP, here's what I'd suggest the Democrats do: 1. Run candidates who are likeable and more importantly, likeable by most Americans. No arrogant "smarter than thou", preachy…

> 2. Drop the radical anti-gun stance They did drop the anti-gun stance and nobody cared or believed them. Kamala was on stage during the debate telling the crowd that she and her running mate were both proud gun owners. Meanwhile Trump is fairly anti-gun. This kind of illustrates the problem. Even if their party radically changes its stance on key issues, everyone is so locked into an ideological bubble that nobody…

They did drop the anti-gun stance and nobody cared or believed them. Kamala was on stage during the debate telling the crowd that she and her running mate were both proud gun owners. Meanwhile Trump is fairly anti-gun.

You can't expect people's mindsets to change overnight though. Organizations develop a reputation of years, decades, or longer. It might take just as long to change that reputation. It takes consistency over time, not just one or two people getting on stage once and saying "I'm a gun owner."