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Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

maksimizmaylov.com

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Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#11

Post by A_Duck »

Why is the iPad so addictive that children have to be kept away from it?

Because every single person designing apps and websites is incentivised to try and win 100% of your attention. Reed Hoffmann put it nicely — "We're competing with sleep, on the margin."

The default apps, browser excluded, are pretty harmless - their incentive is to create a device you decide to welcome into your home. I don't see children spending 4 hours doomscrolling the calculator.

The challenge is to think of another model for creating apps and content — one that retains most of the innovation without the harm

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#12

Post by Kvakes »

A_Duck wrote: post #11

Why is the iPad so addictive that children have to be kept away from it? Because every single person designing apps and websites is incentivised to try and win 100% of your attention. Reed Hoffmann put it nicely — "We're competing with sleep, on the margin." The default apps, browser excluded, are pretty harmless - their incentive is to create a device you decide to welcome into your home. I don't see children spendi…

Absolutely, 100%. Not all tech is the same. A chair is a form of technology, but it doesn't try to make you sit all the time. Although some technologies (like books) are replaced with e-readers through which we handle over a certain degree of freedom to whomever the platform we use belongs to.

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#13

Post by A_Duck »

Kvakes wrote: post #12
A_Duck wrote: post #11

Why is the iPad so addictive that children have to be kept away from it? Because every single person designing apps and websites is incentivised to try and win 100% of your attention. Reed Hoffmann put it nicely — "We're competing with sleep, on the margin." The default apps, browser excluded, are pretty harmless - their incentive is to create a device you decide to welcome into your home. I don't see children spendi…

Absolutely, 100%. Not all tech is the same. A chair is a form of technology, but it doesn't try to make you sit all the time. Although some technologies (like books) are replaced with e-readers through which we handle over a certain degree of freedom to whomever the platform we use belongs to.

The challenge is the system of incentives around the technology

If chair designers were paid based on the number of hours you sat in the chair, I expect we'd see some very different chairs. Probably not better ones for anyone whose life ambitions involve getting up out of a chair.

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#14

Post by Kvakes »

A_Duck wrote: post #13
Kvakes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, 100%. Not all tech is the same. A chair is a form of technology, but it doesn't try to make you sit all the time. Although some technologies (like books) are replaced with e-readers through which we handle over a certain degree of freedom to whomever the platform we use belongs to.

The challenge is the system of incentives around the technology If chair designers were paid based on the number of hours you sat in the chair, I expect we'd see some very different chairs. Probably not better ones for anyone whose life ambitions involve getting up out of a chair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcXMhwF4EtQ

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#15

Post by FollowingTheDao »

This is something the Daoists have talked about for 3000 years.

The "easier and faster" is only facilitated by an unseen debt. You cannot have "easier" without a "harder". The harder will always follow, as sure as the night follows the day. The simplicity of technology is a facade.

So yes, I agree; "You don’t win by keeping up. You win by stepping out."

I am happy to see the Dao making itself visible again.

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#16

Post by FollowingTheDao »

A_Duck wrote: post #11

Why is the iPad so addictive that children have to be kept away from it? Because every single person designing apps and websites is incentivised to try and win 100% of your attention. Reed Hoffmann put it nicely — "We're competing with sleep, on the margin." The default apps, browser excluded, are pretty harmless - their incentive is to create a device you decide to welcome into your home. I don't see children spendi…

> The challenge is to think of another model for creating apps and content — one that retains most of the innovation without the harm

This is impossible! You missed the whole point of the article! Like sugar is addictive because it is extracted from the fruit that carries all the nutrients, the apps are addictive because they are extracted from the challenge of imagination and boredom.

The last line of that essay: "You don’t win by keeping up. You win by stepping out."

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#17

Post by Miraltar »

A_Duck wrote: post #11

Why is the iPad so addictive that children have to be kept away from it? Because every single person designing apps and websites is incentivised to try and win 100% of your attention. Reed Hoffmann put it nicely — "We're competing with sleep, on the margin." The default apps, browser excluded, are pretty harmless - their incentive is to create a device you decide to welcome into your home. I don't see children spendi…

> The default apps, browser excluded, are pretty harmless - their incentive is to create a device you decide to welcome into your home. I don't see children spending 4 hours doomscrolling the calculator.

At least Facebook and Youtube are default apps nowadays

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#18

Post by Kvakes »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #15

This is something the Daoists have talked about for 3000 years. The "easier and faster" is only facilitated by an unseen debt. You cannot have "easier" without a "harder". The harder will always follow, as sure as the night follows the day. The simplicity of technology is a facade. So yes, I agree; "You don’t win by keeping up. You win by stepping out." I am happy to see the Dao making itself visible again.

A lot of old wisdom seems to be coming back. It's as funny as it's sad that we have to wait for "scientists" to confirm to us that fasting, extreme hot/cold, are evidently good to us. Also I've recently seen an ad for a company that builds houses out of carbon-negative materials (wood!).

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#19

Post by _Algernon_ »

A_Duck wrote: post #13
Kvakes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, 100%. Not all tech is the same. A chair is a form of technology, but it doesn't try to make you sit all the time. Although some technologies (like books) are replaced with e-readers through which we handle over a certain degree of freedom to whomever the platform we use belongs to.

The challenge is the system of incentives around the technology If chair designers were paid based on the number of hours you sat in the chair, I expect we'd see some very different chairs. Probably not better ones for anyone whose life ambitions involve getting up out of a chair.

>The challenge is the system of incentives around the technology

The solution is simple: Outlaw advertising. It should have been done decades ago, considering the negative externalities it puts on society (in terms of visual pollution, and harmful incentives it creates).

There is no real reason for it existing. The original argument was that it provides customers with information based on which to make purchasing decisions. It hasn't done this since at least Edward Bernays'[1] time. And there is no argument to be made that customers with internet existing lack information based on which to make purchasing decisions.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

Re: Eco Cycles or How I Feel About Technology

#20

Post by mattgreenrocks »

Kvakes wrote: post #9
WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, when all is said in done, people like to own things and other people. The form will differ, sure, but the concept stays.

I wouldn't say we "like" to do it, but in a certain sense it's an existential necessity to do so.

Disagree: the DiSC personality assessment codifies dominance as a key motivator of behavior. As much as I think the DiSC assessment is just business horoscopes, I still see canonizing dominance as a response to a real impulse, along with a way to easily sell decision makers on the fact that they are, in fact, just wired differently from all those other people below them.
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