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Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

arstechnica.com

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Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#11

Post by miohtama »

djoldman wrote: post #7

> This decision follows a similar case against Internet backbone firm Cloudflare. In January, the Court of Milan found that Cloudflare's CDN, DNS server, and WARP VPN were facilitating piracy. The court threatened Cloudflare with fines of up to 10,000 euros per day if it did not begin blocking the sites. I'm always curious about jurisdiction on this stuff. If Cloudflare had no physical machines, employees, and proper…

The EU companies make payments to Cloudflare, and these could be confiscated. Also any staff in Italy is in danger.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#12

Post by Nux »

geoffpado wrote: post #6
Kenji wrote: post #2

DOH is your friend. My regime poisons DNS and enabling DOH makes things accessible again.

Serious question: how is DoH supposed to help when the resolver itself is being asked to return bad results? DoH makes sense if something is MITM-ing your DNS requests, but it sounds in this case that Google is being asked to just straight-up return bad results?

DoH some other resolver, there's an internet outside Google, you know.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#14

Post by vhcr »

geoffpado wrote: post #6
Kenji wrote: post #2

DOH is your friend. My regime poisons DNS and enabling DOH makes things accessible again.

Serious question: how is DoH supposed to help when the resolver itself is being asked to return bad results? DoH makes sense if something is MITM-ing your DNS requests, but it sounds in this case that Google is being asked to just straight-up return bad results?

DoH over Tor

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#15

Post by bakugo »

djoldman wrote: post #7

> This decision follows a similar case against Internet backbone firm Cloudflare. In January, the Court of Milan found that Cloudflare's CDN, DNS server, and WARP VPN were facilitating piracy. The court threatened Cloudflare with fines of up to 10,000 euros per day if it did not begin blocking the sites. I'm always curious about jurisdiction on this stuff. If Cloudflare had no physical machines, employees, and proper…

Unfortunately, even if we ignore the fact that Cloudflare probably has many Italian customers, there are other ways they can interfere with Cloudflare's services, such as by blocking their IP addresses in the country. It wouldn't be the first time this has been done by European ISPs, sadly.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#16

Post by delroth »

bakugo wrote: post #8

> The goal is aimed at preventing illegal football streams It's impressive how much internet censorship in Europe is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people. It's one of the rare cases where the sheer size and international influence of companies like Google and Cloudflare can actually do some good for the world by fighting back against such laws.

> It's impressive how much internet censorship in Europe is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people.

How is this greedy? It's clearly illegal behavior, both from illegal re-broadcasters and from users. Most of those re-broadcast services aren't even free either, they're directly making money from the broadcasts they're replicating.

The problem is that we still haven't figured out a way to properly enforce laws on the internet. Even for completely egregious violations there's no way to do anything once you track down the website to a bulletproof host in Russia or Ukraine or similar countries that don't cooperate. After 20 years of getting nowhere the courts have to find new and creative ways to enforce laws. I think everyone agrees that ideally this shouldn't be DNS blocks or IP blocks but rather these services getting removed from the internet and/or having to implement regional blocks to comply with laws. But there's just no way at all to make this happen right now.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#17

Post by [deleted] »

bakugo wrote: post #8

> The goal is aimed at preventing illegal football streams It's impressive how much internet censorship in Europe is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people. It's one of the rare cases where the sheer size and international influence of companies like Google and Cloudflare can actually do some good for the world by fighting back against such laws.

[deleted]

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#18

Post by theow939494 »

djoldman wrote: post #7

> This decision follows a similar case against Internet backbone firm Cloudflare. In January, the Court of Milan found that Cloudflare's CDN, DNS server, and WARP VPN were facilitating piracy. The court threatened Cloudflare with fines of up to 10,000 euros per day if it did not begin blocking the sites. I'm always curious about jurisdiction on this stuff. If Cloudflare had no physical machines, employees, and proper…

Many many years ago there was a case, when youtube showed school bullying video from Italy, in recommended content, for several weeks.

If I remember correctly, Italy criminally charged some YT execs, and asked Interpol to get them.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#19

Post by timewizard »

bakugo wrote: post #8

> The goal is aimed at preventing illegal football streams It's impressive how much internet censorship in Europe is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people. It's one of the rare cases where the sheer size and international influence of companies like Google and Cloudflare can actually do some good for the world by fighting back against such laws.

> is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people.

You can be sure it's not limited to just them. This just appears to be the most publicized example because the government happens to be the unusual position that the entity under scrutiny has far more money and legal power than they do.

Re: Italy demands Google poison DNS under strict Piracy Shield law

#20

Post by TeMPOraL »

delroth wrote: post #16
bakugo wrote: post #8

> The goal is aimed at preventing illegal football streams It's impressive how much internet censorship in Europe is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people. It's one of the rare cases where the sheer size and international influence of companies like Google and Cloudflare can actually do some good for the world by fighting back against such laws.

> It's impressive how much internet censorship in Europe is currently being caused by this one group of extremely greedy people. How is this greedy? It's clearly illegal behavior, both from illegal re-broadcasters and from users. Most of those re-broadcast services aren't even free either, they're directly making money from the broadcasts they're replicating. The problem is that we still haven't figured out a way to…

> How is this greedy? It's clearly illegal behavior, both from illegal re-broadcasters and from users. Most of those re-broadcast services aren't even free either, they're directly making money from the broadcasts they're replicating.

It's both. The re-broadcasters may be violating the laws and laws themselves could be unjust, nonsensical, yet existing and enforced because of a group of greedy benefactors actively keeping them that way.

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