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62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

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Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#11

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

marcusverus wrote: post #6
don_neufeld wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it’s true, but those behaviors make a lot more sense if you replace “Trump” with “Russian agent”, don’t they?

[flagged]

Look, I don't believe Trump is a Russian asset. But I'll be honest, looking at some of his actions with respect to Canada and Europe, I can certainly see why people think this.

Based on your response, my guess is that you are at least less anti-Trump than most people I know. So I'm genuinely curious, do you have any ideas about his stance against Canada?

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#12

Post by nitwit005 »

ViktorRay wrote: post #7
epoxia wrote: post #4

An interesting barometer of the tensions, is by looking at Canadian grocers website. All that I have seen, have "buy Canadian" and "produced in Canada" plastered onto most products. Even Walmart has a "made in Canada" tab.

Interesting this is happening in Canada. I live in America and I have not seen too many Made In America stuff recently. Maybe that will change though

Because the Canadians are angry at America, but the reverse is not true.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#13

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

I am honestly baffled what this whole shitstorm is about. Like why did Trump want to bash on Canada in the first place? None of his purported reasons pass the laugh test. Fentanyl trafficking? As has been widely reported, less than 1% of fentanyl that has been caught enters through the Canadian border. And if Trump cares so much about drug trafficking, why did he pardon the Silk Road founder, which did over $200 mill…

I think it's clear that he's simply too old to understand what's going on. By his own account, when he talked with Trudeau yesterday, he was confused why Trudeau couldn't tell him when the next Canadian election was and concluded that he must be planning to "run again for Prime Minister". Because Trump has a reputation for dishonesty, people tend to assume he's lying when he says nonsensical things, but as you say it's hard to imagine what strategic value there could be to lying about this.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#14

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

nitwit005 wrote: post #12
ViktorRay wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting this is happening in Canada. I live in America and I have not seen too many Made In America stuff recently. Maybe that will change though

Because the Canadians are angry at America, but the reverse is not true.

No, because the same is true. At least about half of Americans are angry at America too. And if you look specifially at the administration's stance towards Canada, if you believe polling a sizable majority are as angry and baffled as you are.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#15

Post by outrun86 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

I am honestly baffled what this whole shitstorm is about. Like why did Trump want to bash on Canada in the first place? None of his purported reasons pass the laugh test. Fentanyl trafficking? As has been widely reported, less than 1% of fentanyl that has been caught enters through the Canadian border. And if Trump cares so much about drug trafficking, why did he pardon the Silk Road founder, which did over $200 mill…

Canadian here, who is also not a Trump fan. It is true that Canada has extremely lax border controls and there are complex organized crime networks that exploit this inside of and through Canada.

The US security establishment is aware of this, as is the Canadian security establishment. The 1% fentanyl headline is indeed widely reported, it’s also a red herring. The simple answer is Canada doesn’t really look, so not much is seen. More info here, by one of Canada’s best investigative journalists:

https://www.thebureau.news/p/trade-based-money-laundering-is...

IMO Trump is, as the official white house press release says, trying to put pressure on Canada to address this. Are tariffs the best way to do that? A valid question, for sure. Does he have other, possibly irrational, motivations? Also an excellent question.

But I see much Canadian and US commentary that assumes there is nothing rational about this at all, and that there is no Canadian border/security issues, and I would say that’s incorrect.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#16

Post by pastrami_panda »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

I am honestly baffled what this whole shitstorm is about. Like why did Trump want to bash on Canada in the first place? None of his purported reasons pass the laugh test. Fentanyl trafficking? As has been widely reported, less than 1% of fentanyl that has been caught enters through the Canadian border. And if Trump cares so much about drug trafficking, why did he pardon the Silk Road founder, which did over $200 mill…

> Like why did Trump want to bash on Canada in the first place?

Canada was a founding member of NATO, and it's very obvious Trump does not want a strong NATO alliance. Whatever the reason may be is up to speculation, but from an outside looking in it's quite jarring seeing clips of Hillary Clinton 8 years ago warn everyone that Trump was going to dismantle NATO. How any American is baffled by the current events is the only thing that is baffling to me.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#17

Post by afavour »

marcusverus wrote: post #6
don_neufeld wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying it’s true, but those behaviors make a lot more sense if you replace “Trump” with “Russian agent”, don’t they?

[flagged]

I genuinely wonder if we're going to look back on all of this very differently. It's become commonly accepted that folks on the left got in way over their skis with the "Russian agent" accusations during his first term and based on the evidence actually available I'd say that's true.

But with everything I'm seeing with Ukraine recently... I dunno. His actions aren't rational. It's conspiratorial thinking I know. But absent a coherent explanation for why he sides with Russia repeatedly I'm also not ready to just dismiss anyone saying it.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#18

Post by creer »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

I am honestly baffled what this whole shitstorm is about. Like why did Trump want to bash on Canada in the first place? None of his purported reasons pass the laugh test. Fentanyl trafficking? As has been widely reported, less than 1% of fentanyl that has been caught enters through the Canadian border. And if Trump cares so much about drug trafficking, why did he pardon the Silk Road founder, which did over $200 mill…

One theory was to rant at everyone about everything in the hope of getting little random trade concessions from everyone. The squeeky wheel is the one that gets greased or something. The "what" didn't matter.

BUT the ranting is now at the stage where it has created chaos everywhere. And that has been costly everywhere, first of all in the US. Can the concessions make up for that cost? Is anyone in the mood for concessions by now? It's becoming doubtful. A little outrage would have been no big deal, but it seems we are already past that.

I can now see a second theory: if you see a stalemate you don't like - and your position is otherwise somewhat strong - you can kick major mayhem all around you and stand ready to grab what falls back down from people in a less strong situation. A mix of disruption and being bold when the others are fearful. In that situation, the cost of chaos may be acceptable because you believe you can survive that chaos while the others cannot.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#19

Post by jerlam »

ViktorRay wrote: post #7
epoxia wrote: post #4

An interesting barometer of the tensions, is by looking at Canadian grocers website. All that I have seen, have "buy Canadian" and "produced in Canada" plastered onto most products. Even Walmart has a "made in Canada" tab.

Interesting this is happening in Canada. I live in America and I have not seen too many Made In America stuff recently. Maybe that will change though

Probably wouldn't happen in retail - the price differences are stark.

Most of the made in USA stuff I have seen is mid to higher end.

Re: 62% of Canadians Plan to Avoid the U.S. for at Least the Next Year

#20

Post by afavour »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #3

I am honestly baffled what this whole shitstorm is about. Like why did Trump want to bash on Canada in the first place? None of his purported reasons pass the laugh test. Fentanyl trafficking? As has been widely reported, less than 1% of fentanyl that has been caught enters through the Canadian border. And if Trump cares so much about drug trafficking, why did he pardon the Silk Road founder, which did over $200 mill…

I think it's raw materials. Canada and Greenland both have a load of them. Trump could buy them, he'd rather just _have_ them.

I also think (and I realize this, uh, is not a nuanced, science-backed view) that he's senile and as a result collapses complex ideas into their simplest possible form, which is what we're seeing here. There's a level where examining his motivations in depth just comes up empty and I think that's... accurate?

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